US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies

Kage · 01-01-2008, 04:58 AM

A comprehensive new privacy report gives the US and UK black marks, placing them on the same level as China, Russia, and Malaysia. The report puts the US dead last among democratic countries.

ars technica - US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies

Cogar · 01-01-2008, 10:04 AM

I believe it. Things have changed in the USA over the last 20 years or so.

ATINUT · 01-01-2008, 10:13 AM

I'm not surprised by this.

mcfoo · 01-01-2008, 10:58 AM

EPIC is another extreme, anti government organization. It doesn't want people to provide ID when flying within the US. It doesn't want the government to inquire about anybody flying into the US. It probably wants us to give them all driver's licenses as well...

Cogar · 01-01-2008, 11:33 AM

Good point, mcfoo. Still, there has to be a balance, and I think that certain agencies in the USA have not been attempting to maintain that balance for some time. I have traveled internationally for extended periods on business, and agree that on the surface the USA is not necessarily better or worse than other countries listed in the three "worst" categories. (At least as far as I could tell as a businessman staying in a country for less than a month at a time.) Still, the trend is there and it is not where it should be.

switch_abx · 01-01-2008, 02:10 PM

we call such countries "pseudo democracies":

USA, Germany, UK, France, The Netherlands, to mention a few.

XJ. · 01-01-2008, 02:29 PM

Visual surveillance in the US roughly equal to GBR??!! Has the group that put out this data ever noticed the SIZE of the United States? This is sheer nonsense.

maxidius · 01-01-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

switch_abx
we call such countries "pseudo democracies":

USA, Germany, UK, France, The Netherlands, to mention a few.

Perhaps, but how are the "fake democracies", the corrupt democracies ?

switch_abx · 01-02-2008, 04:19 AM

fake democracies are the export product of the pseudo democracies. It's like with religion. The missionaries of the pseudo democracies are the leaders of the fake democracies. Equally bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxidius

Perhaps, but how are the "fake democracies", the corrupt democracies ?

Spawn_abx · 01-02-2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XJ.

Visual surveillance in the US roughly equal to GBR??!! Has the group that put out this data ever noticed the SIZE of the United States? This is sheer nonsense.

There are 1+ million surveillance cameras in London alone, and that number is growing rapidly in the UK. The surveillance growth rate there is much faster than in the US.

XJ. · 01-02-2008, 10:26 AM

Yes, but the US is about ~10Mkm2 of land area vs ~1/4Mkm2 for the UK. Granted, the bulk of the population is in large metro regions, but if you want to get away from that, there is plenty of land in the US to do so.

maraud · 01-02-2008, 02:18 PM

King George the First has not helped with his big brother policies. Based on the past, don't expect the next Pres. to recind any of the BIG BROTHER policies either.

DutchBBQ · 01-03-2008, 04:16 AM

The full report is available at:

Privacy International

01-01-2008, 04:58 AM	#1
Kage Ich will mehr! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Fiery depths of Hell Posts: 3,620	US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies A comprehensive new privacy report gives the US and UK black marks, placing them on the same level as China, Russia, and Malaysia. The report puts the US dead last among democratic countries. ars technica - US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies
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01-01-2008, 10:04 AM	#2
Cogar Level 16, lawful good Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: It varies, but usually within 100 yards of a keyboard. Posts: 7,284	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies I believe it. Things have changed in the USA over the last 20 years or so.
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01-01-2008, 10:13 AM	#3
ATINUT Just Plain Crazy! Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,277	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies I'm not surprised by this. __________________ Intel D975XBX2 Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 8GB's of Mushkin HP2 6400 memory(DDR2 800) two Sapphire GDDR4 Radeon 3870 videocards HT Omega Claro(Cmedia 8788HD chip) 120GB&200GB&320GB Western Digital harddrives LG DVDROM & LG DVDBURNER HP Deskjet 920C Logitech X-540 speakers Viewsonic VG2030wm 20inch Widescreen LCD Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit with Service Pack 1 Who'se the fool that approved the design for this place. - The Dwarf, Sacred Underworld.
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01-01-2008, 10:58 AM	#4
mcfoo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 158	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies EPIC is another extreme, anti government organization. It doesn't want people to provide ID when flying within the US. It doesn't want the government to inquire about anybody flying into the US. It probably wants us to give them all driver's licenses as well... __________________ John
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01-01-2008, 11:33 AM	#5
Cogar Level 16, lawful good Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: It varies, but usually within 100 yards of a keyboard. Posts: 7,284	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies Good point, mcfoo. Still, there has to be a balance, and I think that certain agencies in the USA have not been attempting to maintain that balance for some time. I have traveled internationally for extended periods on business, and agree that on the surface the USA is not necessarily better or worse than other countries listed in the three "worst" categories. (At least as far as I could tell as a businessman staying in a country for less than a month at a time.) Still, the trend is there and it is not where it should be.
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01-01-2008, 02:10 PM	#6
switch_abx Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 2,670	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies we call such countries "pseudo democracies": USA, Germany, UK, France, The Netherlands, to mention a few.
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01-01-2008, 02:29 PM	#7
XJ. Back at the Zone! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NH, USA Posts: 6,365	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies Visual surveillance in the US roughly equal to GBR??!! Has the group that put out this data ever noticed the SIZE of the United States? This is sheer nonsense.
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01-02-2008, 10:26 AM	#11
XJ. Back at the Zone! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: NH, USA Posts: 6,365	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies Yes, but the US is about ~10Mkm2 of land area vs ~1/4Mkm2 for the UK. Granted, the bulk of the population is in large metro regions, but if you want to get away from that, there is plenty of land in the US to do so.
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01-02-2008, 02:18 PM	#12
maraud Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 326	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies King George the First has not helped with his big brother policies. Based on the past, don't expect the next Pres. to recind any of the BIG BROTHER policies either.
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01-03-2008, 04:16 AM	#13
DutchBBQ Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 256	Re: US and UK have become "endemic" surveillance societies The full report is available at: Privacy International
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