K7VZA memory ?

NytOwl · 01-14-2002, 11:02 PM

Is there a problem with using these two sticks of memory...

Apacer 256Mb UNB PC133 CL3
and
TwinMOS PC133 256Mb SD/CL3

with this combo?

Athlon 850

ECS K7VZA Rev.1.0

VIA® VT8363 & VT82C686A Chipset
(The VIA VT82C686A is standard and supports UDMA33/66)

Also appreciate any info about setting up the cpu, is the auto dectection reliable?

Thanks,

NytOwl

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**Gorganzola** · 01-15-2002, 12:12 AM

Well, the only way to know if those memory sticks will work together nicely is to try them. I am sure they will get along just fine though.

I am more concerned with your choice of motherboard. I never had much faith in ECS personaly.

With that chipset on that board make sure that you use the latest BIOS and the latest VIA 4-in-1's to avoid any corruption of data.

The autodetection should be just fine. The majority of users, including myself, use it. If you are that concerned there is no harm in setting the jumpers on the motherboard.

NytOwl · 01-15-2002, 01:10 AM

I need to explain the situation better.

This isn't my system, it's one I'm trying to help find out why it's having random lockups .

It's been running on the memory listed but there could be a problem anyway.

AMD says Athlon 850 needs 168 pin 3.3v unbuffered PC100 DIMMs but the existing ones are 133, is that a problem?

The chipset only supports 100 FSB even though the ECS specs claimed 100/133.

Frankly, I wouldn't think of buying an ECS after what I've been finding out.

Trying the latest bios has resulted in a bad flash which we're in the process of running a flash with the boot block to try to recover.

The 4-in-1s have been updated and uninstalled.

About the CPU jumpers, I don't think there are any but you can choose a couple of bus setting other than just Auto.

NytOwl

StarTraveller · 01-15-2002, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NytOwl
This isn't my system, it's one I'm trying to help find out why it's having random lockups.

My brother had similar problems in a cheap AMD box a while back. After replacing a messed up motherboard and a messed up CPU, I finally found out that it was the PSU that was to blame - and it fried the mobo and CPU before the problem was discovered

.

No offense intended, but it sounds like your friend's system is an El Cheapo brand

and unfortunately these often get the El Cheapo brand PSUs as well...

My advice would be to try and replace the PSU and see if that solves the problem.

Quote:

AMD says Athlon 850 needs 168 pin 3.3v unbuffered PC100 DIMMs but the existing ones are 133, is that a problem?

That should not be a problem. The memory modules just won't run as fast as they're built to

.

StarTraveller · 01-15-2002, 01:22 AM

BTW, do the problems go away if you use only one stick of RAM?

Protoplasm72 · 01-15-2002, 01:25 AM

Well, there is no problem running RAM at a lower speed than it is rated. If you want to find out one of those sticks it bad you should try running it with one in at a time. If it locks up with only one of the sticks then one of the sticks is bad. If it locks up no matter which stick is in then it is something else (except in the very unlikely event that both sticks are bad).

EDIT: You beat me to it ST.

NytOwl · 01-15-2002, 12:09 PM

Thanks for the replies.

All the combinations of installing the memory have been tried with no change.

The only thing left is whether or not those sticks are not the right type to begin with.
What does the CD3 mean on the end of the stick I.D. ?

The power supply is suspect but can't do much til we get the Mbrd back up (if we do).

NytOwl

**Gorganzola** · 01-15-2002, 05:44 PM

PC133 memory is backwards compatible with PC66 and PC100 and therefore that is not an issue.

However, there could be something else wrong with them. I would be more suspect of the board or the PSU than the memory right now.

Why don't you try the memory in your machine and see how it works?

NytOwl · 01-16-2002, 11:38 AM

>Why don't you try the memory in your machine and see how it works?<

Because I don't have more nerve than a bungy jumper like you do!

Ok, let me ask this, after a failed attempt to flash to the latest bios (vza12g.bin) the system won't boot.
The psu and fan power up but a long continuous beep starts within 2 seconds and the computer switches itself off within 3 seconds of the beep starting.

We've tried to use a variation of the Automatic recovery using the bios boot block here...

http://sysopt.earthweb.com/articles/...ios/index.html

with no change, still only get the long beep, then shutdown.

Any feedback appreciated,

NytOwl

Edit: Fixed the bad link as per Gorganzola.

**Gorganzola** · 01-16-2002, 05:49 PM

Ok, the link you had was broken so I found, or at least I think I found, what you were reading.

I think this is the link.

Anyways, you say a modified way of doing it. I don't know why you modified anything other than the name of the file to be used. The information they give should work straight off the bat.

The BIOS to try is here.

The flash utility to use is here.

Create the bootdisk using DrDOS7.x from http://www.bootdisk.com.

Now, put

a:\awd802.exe vza34.bin /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd /R

in a file labeled autoexec.bat on your floppy.

So, extract the contents from the BIOS archive. Put the file named vza34.bin on the root of the bootable floppy you created using DrDOS7.x. Also, save the flash utility to the root of the bootable floppy. Then open notepad and enter the above line I tell you to put in the autoexec.bat and save it to the bootable floppy as autoexec.bat.

Now, just boot off the floppy and wait for it to reboot.

The only other thing I can think of try is to remove the battery, then boot up the machine and see if that works. If it doesn't try booting the machine with the floppy made using the above instructions with the floppy removed.

NytOwl · 01-16-2002, 08:07 PM

Well, thanks for all the trouble you've gone to but this Rev. 1.0 Mbrd (yours are for Rev. 3.0) has the VIA® VT8363 & VT82C686A Chipset which uses the awd77.zip V7.7 (16.4KB) flash utility from ...
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs...load/flash.htm .

The bios download (vza11g.zip V1.1g (153KB) Release Date: 12/07/2000) is found here...
http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs...load/k7vza.htm .

There is one newer bios but that's the one that failed so we're trying to revert to the prior one.
Extracting the downloads produces Awd77.exe and vza11g.BIN which makes the autoexec entry...

AWARDFLASH vza11g.BIN /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd /R .

AWARDFLASH is used instead of a:\Awd77.exe because the Help file in Awd77.exe says to but either one will probably work.

Here's the Help file.
---------------
Awdflash 7.7 (C) Award Software 2000 All Rights Reserved

Usage: AWDFLASH FileName1 FileName2 /<sw>...
FileName1 : New Bios Name For Flash Programming
FileName2 : BIOS File For Backing-up the Original BIOS
<Switches>
?: Show Help Messages
py: Program Flash Memory
pn: No Flash Programming
sy: Backup Original BIOS To Disk File
sn: No Original BIOS Backup
Sb: Skip BootBlock Programming
cp: Clear PnP (ESCD) Data After Programming
cd: Clear DMI Data After Programming
sd: Save DMI Data To File
cc: Clear CMOS Data After Programming
R: RESET System After Programming
Tiny: Occupy lesser memory
E: Return to DOS When Programming is done
F: Use Flash Routines in Original BIOS For Flash Programming
LD: Destroy CMOS Checksum And No System Halt For First Reboot
After Programming
cksXXXX: Compare Binfile Checksum with XXXX
cks: Show update Binfile checksum

Example: AWDFLASH 2a59i000.bin /py /sn /cd /cp / cks2635
Our line: AWDFLASH vza11g.BIN /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd /R
--------------
The BIOS Recovery Guide says /R reboots but the Help file says it Resets instead, another Guide discrepancy is the use of a Windows Startup floppy with a lot of un-needed files.
A flash floppy should only have system files, the flash utility and the bios file.
Here's the contents of our flash floppy.

Awd77.exe, COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, and vza11g.BIN.

Will try the removed battery boot, that's something that hasn't been tried.
Will post back results.

NytOwl

NytOwl · 01-17-2002, 11:55 AM

No reply about the removed battery trick yet.

Here's another question, at the bottom of the processor support chart here...

http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs...rt/support.htm

(you have to click on FAQ, Comparison of Mainboards and Processors Chart, and the K7 button )

there's a note for the REV. 1.0 that says "p.s. K7VZA/M PCB 1.X just support FSB at 100MHz, because KT133 spec. limitation."

Does that mean the Rev. 1.0 Mbrd can't properly run an Athlon 850 with it's 200 FSB ?

This board was advertised as supporting Athlons up to 1.2G and 133 ram.

NytOwl

**k0NG0** · 01-17-2002, 12:07 PM

The Athlon uses a DDR (double data rate) front side bus (FSB), and that means that the 100MHz talked about in the note is "double pumped" to be as fast as a 200MHz SDR (single data rate) FSB. So describing it as a 200MHz FSB isn't entirely correct, but it is the most common thing to do since it's easier to do than saying "100MHz DDR" or whatever

.

It's the same thing with the Intel Pentium 4 FSB, it is really 100MHz QDR (quad data rate), but is usually said to be 400MHz, since that's the SDR equivalent when it comes to performance.

-kONGO

NytOwl · 01-17-2002, 01:18 PM

Thanks Kongo,

In that same chart, why does the K7VZA Duron support stop at 800 ?

http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs...q/table-K7.htm

NytOwl

**k0NG0** · 01-17-2002, 01:42 PM

No idea...probably BIOS related as in they haven't made the BIOS recognize the CPUID of Durons faster than 800MHz or something.

-kONGO

01-14-2002, 11:02 PM	#1
NytOwl Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 147	K7VZA memory ? Is there a problem with using these two sticks of memory... Apacer 256Mb UNB PC133 CL3 and TwinMOS PC133 256Mb SD/CL3 with this combo? Athlon 850 ECS K7VZA Rev.1.0 VIA® VT8363 & VT82C686A Chipset (The VIA VT82C686A is standard and supports UDMA33/66) Also appreciate any info about setting up the cpu, is the auto dectection reliable? Thanks, NytOwl
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01-15-2002, 12:12 AM	#2
Gorganzola Hangin' with the Fruits Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hangin' with the fruits Posts: 9,514	Well, the only way to know if those memory sticks will work together nicely is to try them. I am sure they will get along just fine though. I am more concerned with your choice of motherboard. I never had much faith in ECS personaly. With that chipset on that board make sure that you use the latest BIOS and the latest VIA 4-in-1's to avoid any corruption of data. The autodetection should be just fine. The majority of users, including myself, use it. If you are that concerned there is no harm in setting the jumpers on the motherboard. __________________ TTFN. I wasn't asleep at the switch, I was drunk. -- Homer J. Simpson Q. How many dull people does it take to change a lightbulb? A. One. A very useful tool on these forums: You can Meebo in public.
(Offline)

01-15-2002, 01:10 AM	#3
NytOwl Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 147	I need to explain the situation better. This isn't my system, it's one I'm trying to help find out why it's having random lockups . It's been running on the memory listed but there could be a problem anyway. AMD says Athlon 850 needs 168 pin 3.3v unbuffered PC100 DIMMs but the existing ones are 133, is that a problem? The chipset only supports 100 FSB even though the ECS specs claimed 100/133. Frankly, I wouldn't think of buying an ECS after what I've been finding out. Trying the latest bios has resulted in a bad flash which we're in the process of running a flash with the boot block to try to recover. The 4-in-1s have been updated and uninstalled. About the CPU jumpers, I don't think there are any but you can choose a couple of bus setting other than just Auto. NytOwl
(Offline)

01-15-2002, 01:22 AM	#5
StarTraveller Retired Modder Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Cloud Nine Posts: 6,494	BTW, do the problems go away if you use only one stick of RAM? __________________ MSc at last! Read all about my highly acclaimed thesis (in Danish) about a method for evaluating teaching. An English version of the web site is also available. StarTraveller.net - see Computers for current setup! Well, it used to be current... Right now, my primary computer is a ThinkPad T43p 2668-H7U upgraded to 2 GB RAM Motto: If it is worth doing then it is worth doing right! Caution: The light at the end of a tunnel may be an oncoming train...
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01-15-2002, 01:25 AM	#6
Protoplasm72 Mmmm..... Folding@Home Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,298	Well, there is no problem running RAM at a lower speed than it is rated. If you want to find out one of those sticks it bad you should try running it with one in at a time. If it locks up with only one of the sticks then one of the sticks is bad. If it locks up no matter which stick is in then it is something else (except in the very unlikely event that both sticks are bad). EDIT: You beat me to it ST. __________________ proto My Folding Details "Friends, Family, Religion... These are the three demons you must slay in order to succeed in business" C.M. Burns
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01-15-2002, 12:09 PM	#7
NytOwl Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 147	Thanks for the replies. All the combinations of installing the memory have been tried with no change. The only thing left is whether or not those sticks are not the right type to begin with. What does the CD3 mean on the end of the stick I.D. ? The power supply is suspect but can't do much til we get the Mbrd back up (if we do). NytOwl
(Offline)

01-15-2002, 05:44 PM	#8
Gorganzola Hangin' with the Fruits Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hangin' with the fruits Posts: 9,514	PC133 memory is backwards compatible with PC66 and PC100 and therefore that is not an issue. However, there could be something else wrong with them. I would be more suspect of the board or the PSU than the memory right now. Why don't you try the memory in your machine and see how it works? __________________ TTFN. I wasn't asleep at the switch, I was drunk. -- Homer J. Simpson Q. How many dull people does it take to change a lightbulb? A. One. A very useful tool on these forums: You can Meebo in public.
(Offline)

01-16-2002, 11:38 AM	#9
NytOwl Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 147	>Why don't you try the memory in your machine and see how it works?< Because I don't have more nerve than a bungy jumper like you do! Ok, let me ask this, after a failed attempt to flash to the latest bios (vza12g.bin) the system won't boot. The psu and fan power up but a long continuous beep starts within 2 seconds and the computer switches itself off within 3 seconds of the beep starting. We've tried to use a variation of the Automatic recovery using the bios boot block here... http://sysopt.earthweb.com/articles/...ios/index.html with no change, still only get the long beep, then shutdown. Any feedback appreciated, NytOwl Edit: Fixed the bad link as per Gorganzola. Last edited by NytOwl; 01-16-2002 at 07:25 PM..
(Offline)

01-16-2002, 05:49 PM	#10
Gorganzola Hangin' with the Fruits Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hangin' with the fruits Posts: 9,514	Ok, the link you had was broken so I found, or at least I think I found, what you were reading. I think this is the link. Anyways, you say a modified way of doing it. I don't know why you modified anything other than the name of the file to be used. The information they give should work straight off the bat. The BIOS to try is here. The flash utility to use is here. Create the bootdisk using DrDOS7.x from http://www.bootdisk.com. Now, put a:\awd802.exe vza34.bin /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd /R in a file labeled autoexec.bat on your floppy. So, extract the contents from the BIOS archive. Put the file named vza34.bin on the root of the bootable floppy you created using DrDOS7.x. Also, save the flash utility to the root of the bootable floppy. Then open notepad and enter the above line I tell you to put in the autoexec.bat and save it to the bootable floppy as autoexec.bat. Now, just boot off the floppy and wait for it to reboot. The only other thing I can think of try is to remove the battery, then boot up the machine and see if that works. If it doesn't try booting the machine with the floppy made using the above instructions with the floppy removed. __________________ TTFN. I wasn't asleep at the switch, I was drunk. -- Homer J. Simpson Q. How many dull people does it take to change a lightbulb? A. One. A very useful tool on these forums: You can Meebo in public.
(Offline)

01-16-2002, 08:07 PM	#11
NytOwl Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 147	Well, thanks for all the trouble you've gone to but this Rev. 1.0 Mbrd (yours are for Rev. 3.0) has the VIA® VT8363 & VT82C686A Chipset which uses the awd77.zip V7.7 (16.4KB) flash utility from ... http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs...load/flash.htm . The bios download (vza11g.zip V1.1g (153KB) Release Date: 12/07/2000) is found here... http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs...load/k7vza.htm . There is one newer bios but that's the one that failed so we're trying to revert to the prior one. Extracting the downloads produces Awd77.exe and vza11g.BIN which makes the autoexec entry... AWARDFLASH vza11g.BIN /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd /R . AWARDFLASH is used instead of a:\Awd77.exe because the Help file in Awd77.exe says to but either one will probably work. Here's the Help file. --------------- Awdflash 7.7 (C) Award Software 2000 All Rights Reserved Usage: AWDFLASH FileName1 FileName2 /<sw>... FileName1 : New Bios Name For Flash Programming FileName2 : BIOS File For Backing-up the Original BIOS <Switches> ?: Show Help Messages py: Program Flash Memory pn: No Flash Programming sy: Backup Original BIOS To Disk File sn: No Original BIOS Backup Sb: Skip BootBlock Programming cp: Clear PnP (ESCD) Data After Programming cd: Clear DMI Data After Programming sd: Save DMI Data To File cc: Clear CMOS Data After Programming R: RESET System After Programming Tiny: Occupy lesser memory E: Return to DOS When Programming is done F: Use Flash Routines in Original BIOS For Flash Programming LD: Destroy CMOS Checksum And No System Halt For First Reboot After Programming cksXXXX: Compare Binfile Checksum with XXXX cks: Show update Binfile checksum Example: AWDFLASH 2a59i000.bin /py /sn /cd /cp / cks2635 Our line: AWDFLASH vza11g.BIN /py /Sb /sn /cc /cp /cd /R -------------- The BIOS Recovery Guide says /R reboots but the Help file says it Resets instead, another Guide discrepancy is the use of a Windows Startup floppy with a lot of un-needed files. A flash floppy should only have system files, the flash utility and the bios file. Here's the contents of our flash floppy. Awd77.exe, COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, and vza11g.BIN. Will try the removed battery boot, that's something that hasn't been tried. Will post back results. NytOwl
(Offline)

01-17-2002, 11:55 AM	#12
NytOwl Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 147	No reply about the removed battery trick yet. Here's another question, at the bottom of the processor support chart here... http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs...rt/support.htm (you have to click on FAQ, Comparison of Mainboards and Processors Chart, and the K7 button ) there's a note for the REV. 1.0 that says "p.s. K7VZA/M PCB 1.X just support FSB at 100MHz, because KT133 spec. limitation." Does that mean the Rev. 1.0 Mbrd can't properly run an Athlon 850 with it's 200 FSB ? This board was advertised as supporting Athlons up to 1.2G and 133 ram. NytOwl
(Offline)

01-17-2002, 12:07 PM	#13
k0NG0 Remembering TQ Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 13,749	The Athlon uses a DDR (double data rate) front side bus (FSB), and that means that the 100MHz talked about in the note is "double pumped" to be as fast as a 200MHz SDR (single data rate) FSB. So describing it as a 200MHz FSB isn't entirely correct, but it is the most common thing to do since it's easier to do than saying "100MHz DDR" or whatever . It's the same thing with the Intel Pentium 4 FSB, it is really 100MHz QDR (quad data rate), but is usually said to be 400MHz, since that's the SDR equivalent when it comes to performance. -kONGO
(Offline)

01-17-2002, 01:18 PM	#14
NytOwl Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 147	Thanks Kongo, In that same chart, why does the K7VZA Duron support stop at 800 ? http://www.ecsusa.com/ecsusa/www.ecs...q/table-K7.htm NytOwl
(Offline)

01-17-2002, 01:42 PM	#15
k0NG0 Remembering TQ Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 13,749	No idea...probably BIOS related as in they haven't made the BIOS recognize the CPUID of Durons faster than 800MHz or something. -kONGO
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