Intel DP55KG (Kingsberg)

[Eandori]

* Personally, I think that you must pay much attention to the quality of manufacturing of your boards (Intel motherboards)- quality of the used components, soldering, generally - assembling. My personal opinion is that your quality control is quite low. In some motherboards you use inferior quality parts, like these "Lelon" capacitors, "famous" only for their problems. Generally, I must say that according to my personal experience, and in term of quality, your old motherboards was far more superior than the new ones. It is sure that, your immense work will be diminished unquestionably by the low quality of your motherboard production.

* The Intel BIOS is (and was) always A big headache -like code, and like security of the update procedure. Many users here are really upset by the lack of one simple and clear procedure, how to upgrade these BIOS-es. Better 2 methods, but rock solid working, instead of 12, with dubious effect. The problem with the Intel BIOS-es are so big, that many of us never try to "upgrade" their BIOS, because of immense fear of secret problems. Tons of them, to be more specific. Your BIOS-ses matures painfully slow. Some problems like the fan control of the attached directly to the motherboard fans (3 or 4-pin), I think, you are unable to solve definitely years from now. It is possible new product like this mobo here, so expensive, to have a LAN problems with one BIOS update??

Since I'm NOT an official rep, just an Engineer who loves his work and likes to see users using it, I obviously cannot say much since I have not been approved to do so. I WISH I could... for the picture is much bigger then you are making it.

I will tell you this much though...

If a bug appears, and I whip out a fix in 10 min then how long does that fix need to be checked to make sure it works. How long does it take to make sure it does not break anything else? Point is, the more we "validate" a fix, the longer it takes. Customers want fixes fast, but they also demand nothing else gets broken in the process. Some companies fix bugs fast and cause new problems, other companies fix bugs slowly and don't create new issues. It's a balance, and just because YOU want it one way, does not mean everybody else does.

So that's one dynamic.

Just because a capacitor is of one type or another, does not mean there will be problems. You don't always need the 4x expensive capacitor, many times it's totally overkill. Like gold-plating the connection plates on your phone charger jack. You just don't need it. Would you REALLY prefer that any company uses components that add an extra $60 to the board price for ZERO value increase? Not that it's my choice to begin with... but I would think most customers would prefer us to use the expensive parts where they are ACTUALLY needed.

There's another dynamic to consider.

You are making the assumption that issues like 3/4 wire fan control can't be solved. As if we cannot design a solution for all. Completely void in your analogy is the FACT that computer components are often made wrong, and that has NOTHING to do with whoever made your motherboard. Let's say 25 companies make a hard drive, and comply to the spec, but 2 do not. They make non-compliant and bad products. 10 companies are making motherboards and making their boards to the spec, but 8 of them realize there are "bad" hard drives out there, so they make their boards also violate the spec... to make those "bad" hard drives work. 2 of those board companies stick to the spec.

After those boards launch, consumers blame the MOTHERBOARD manufacturer for making a bad board, because "all the other boards work." So they assume it's a board problem. But it was really a hard drive problem. Now add on 2 more years, and new hard drives come out that DON'T work on those 8 boards that violated the spec, they only work on the 2 that didn't violate the spec and were incorrectly labeled as "bad."

Do you get the idea? MANY MANY MANY times in the PC industry you make a judgement call as to who is going to break what, whether or not you want to "bend the rules" to fix it, and how that will impact your average user. Has this happened in the past?? (this type of example...) my gosh YES. I can very much guarentee that many users make 100% the wrong conclusion as to who actually created a problem.

That's all I can say for now. Nothing specific to this board, just general things to consider when you consumers are trying to make up your own minds as to what the real problem is. I will say this though, this board is awesome and immensely worth it's salt in any benchmark or review. I will be building personal systems at home out of this board for sure. Maybe someday I will be officially allowed to fully reply to your questions.

Cheers,

[Intel_User]

Originally Posted by panzerino

With all my respect to your hard works, I must say some things here also:

* Personally, I think that you must pay much attention to the quality of manufacturing of your boards (Intel motherboards)- quality of the used components, soldering, generally - assembling. My personal opinion is that your quality control is quite low. In some motherboards you use inferior quality parts, like these "Lelon" capacitors, "famous" only for their problems. Generally, I must say that according to my personal experience, and in term of quality, your old motherboards was far more superior than the new ones. It is sure that, your immense work will be diminished unquestionably by the low quality of your motherboard production.

* The Intel BIOS is (and was) always A big headache -like code, and like security of the update procedure. Many users here are really upset by the lack of one simple and clear procedure, how to upgrade these BIOS-es. Better 2 methods, but rock solid working, instead of 12, with dubious effect. The problem with the Intel BIOS-es are so big, that many of us never try to "upgrade" their BIOS, because of immense fear of secret problems. Tons of them, to be more specific. Your BIOS-ses matures painfully slow. Some problems like the fan control of the attached directly to the motherboard fans (3 or 4-pin), I think, you are unable to solve definitely years from now. It is possible new product like this mobo here, so expensive, to have a LAN problems with one BIOS update??

I have DP43TF. I’m really enjoying my mobo. Never had a single problem. Until now. Because never try to "upgrade" my BIOS.

Actually, regarding capacitors, Intel were one of the very few companies that didn't have capacitor problem back in the days where everyone didn't pay attention to them. I've encountered computers with those boards in the past.

I partially agree about the BIOS updates. The first time user upgrading BIOS can be a bit daunting. But if you know computers well anyway, it works fine. The thing to take is their board seems to be made with the mentality only system integrators(or highly knowledgeable people) will install/upgrade them.

The current motherboard I use, the DG965WH, had very annoying problems in the beginning. After some time and few driver updates later, they don't exist. Even reviews reflect that if you pay very close attention. The Intel X58 motherboard has much better performance and stability in the reviews done 6-10 months after the release. Yes, it pays to be patient.

[Gareth_WNW]

Well, as well as a motherboard and operating system, I now have a case to put them in.

Getting there slowly !

Fractal Design - Products

Gareth

[emgarf]

New BIOS (3878) and LAN driver (14.7) available from Intel's Download Center...

[panzerino]

Eandori,

I think that, the reality is quite simple:

* On the market there is a low-grade and relatively low price range capacitors either from Nippon Chemi-Con Corporation or Rubycon, which in terms of quality are far,far more superior than these "Lelon" or any other cheap brand. And in price, these Nippon Chemi-Con Corporation or Rubycons are little more expensive. Little more. If you offer to the consumer motherboards, which are at the beginning much, much, more expensive, it will be correct to put good parts there. But probably Intel want to make profit margin 70% instead of 65%, do not caring for the quality of your low-price range products. Plain and simple- to squeeze every penny, do not understanding how big problem the brand have with the quality of the final product.

*The question with the Intel fan control is that, there is no single fan brand today, 3 or 4 pin, which is able to work with your BIOS scheme of fan-control. Simply I think that, the Intel is unable to achieve this on BIOS level until now. I think also that, simply your BIOS- es are bad. From 5-10, 2 or 3 are good and problems-free. Plain and simple. For me, at least. Are you able to explain, why brand like Supermicro had so good and stable BIOS from the beginning? and for the whole product life, there is only 2-3 BIOS upgrades? i.e. it is possible to have good and working BIOS from the beginning. What's the point of this "BIOS maturing" if after 1 year I must to upgrade my motherboard? to make my life difficult for this 1 whole year? No logic behind your words, sorry.

The big problems with one brand starts from small things.

[Eandori]

* On the market there is a low-grade and relatively low price range capacitors either from Nippon Chemi-Con Corporation or Rubycon, which in terms of quality are far,far more superior than these "Lelon" or any other cheap brand. And in price, these Nippon Chemi-Con Corporation or Rubycons are little more expensive. Little more. If you offer to the consumer motherboards, which are at the beginning much, much, more expensive, it will be correct to put good parts there. But probably Intel want to make profit margin 70% instead of 65%, do not caring for the quality of your low-price range products. Plain and simple- to squeeze every penny, do not understanding how big problem the brand have with the quality of the final product.

You assume FAR too much here. You don't build motherboards so you don't really know, even though you think you do.

If there exists a part which is cheaper and better, then of course we obviously would want to use it. So why don't we? Sometimes it's because at the time we made a product that new part was still being validated. Sometimes it's because we needed 200,000 of those units and only 10,000 were available. So who cares that it was same price and slightly better, we might have had to do 2 different boards just to use 10,000 of those better parts and the other 190,000 boards with the worse parts. Also, what about in the manufacturing process? Perhaps other parts can only be soldered with lower temp leaded solder and since we are Intel we are forced to use lead-free solder which requires a higher temp. Boards made overseas don't give a care about environment or regulations and do whatever they want. But WE get targeted and punished so we put more effort into doing it right. Which gives us a smaller scope of potential parts.

Am I shedding some light on this yet for you? Do you have SOME idea that these choices are made in a much bigger box then what you thought?

*The question with the Intel fan control is that, there is no single fan brand today, 3 or 4 pin, which is able to work with your BIOS scheme of fan-control. Simply I think that, the Intel is unable to achieve this on BIOS level until now.

LOL sorry, but that is just totally wrong. It's kinda funny too because it makes it clear you seem to be approaching this with an agenda. Sure, there are SOME FANS that don't work well on SOME BOARDS but it's corner cases that has to do with the size of the fan, the lack of kick-start at power up, etc. We do have fan control on ALL boards, and it DOES work, and we DO validate it.

BTW, our "BIOS scheme of Fan Control" as you put it changes from product to product. It's not one scheme, they differ. So again, your statement shows the lack of true knowledge to our products. Some use iQST, some use Heceta, and other boards have modified versions of those etc. Take a look at Kingsberg, it has a whole BIOS question for 3 or 4 wire fan control which has never existed in another board before.

I think also that, simply your BIOS- es are bad. From 5-10, 2 or 3 are good and problems-free. Plain and simple. For me, at least. Are you able to explain, why brand like Supermicro had so good and stable BIOS from the beginning? and for the whole product life, there is only 2-3 BIOS upgrades? i.e. it is possible to have good and working BIOS from the beginning. What's the point of this "BIOS maturing" if after 1 year I must to upgrade my motherboard? to make my life difficult for this 1 whole year? No logic behind your words, sorry.

It sounds to me like you have tried out a few systems with each brand and now you are extending your assumptions to the entire history for all products on each brand. I used a D975XBX2 board for 5 years in my own home and never even needed a BIOS update besides all the numerous hardware and software updates changes I always did. I have a DX58SO now that is also rock solid and will last me another 3-4 years for sure without changes. Perhaps you got an Intel product that was not as stable, and tried out a Supermicro product that gave you better results. It happens, sorry to hear. But to assume that represents 100% of those businesses... dead wrong.

Hopefully there will be better discussion about KINGSBERG in the KINGSBERG THREAD then this.

[Eandori]

On a different topic, Kingsberg (and nearly every other Intel board) has 4 methods to update BIOS.

EBU (Express BIOS Update) = .exe file run from windows, does an S3 cycle and flashes BIOS. Very easy.
IBU (Intel BIOS Update) = .BIO file that is flashed from a DOS app
F7 = A Hotkey you can hit during POST that takes you to a BIOS-driven sub menu where you can browse to where your .BIO file is on a USB thumb drive etc. and do a Flash update.
Recovery Mode = when you remove the BIOS Config jumper, the BIOS scans a USB Flash drive for a compatible .BIO file and flashes it in.

Personally, I think between the F7 and the EBU methods Intel BIOS updates are very simple. Especially the EBU method.

[Gareth_WNW]

Originally Posted by Eandori

On a different topic, Kingsberg (and nearly every other Intel board) has 4 methods to update BIOS.

EBU (Express BIOS Update) = .exe file run from windows, does an S3 cycle and flashes BIOS. Very easy.
IBU (Intel BIOS Update) = .BIO file that is flashed from a DOS app
F7 = A Hotkey you can hit during POST that takes you to a BIOS-driven sub menu where you can browse to where your .BIO file is on a USB thumb drive etc. and do a Flash update.
Recovery Mode = when you remove the BIOS Config jumper, the BIOS scans a USB Flash drive for a compatible .BIO file and flashes it in.

Personally, I think between the F7 and the EBU methods Intel BIOS updates are very simple. Especially the EBU method.

EBU has always worked for me. Never a problem.

Gareth.

[JimTram]

It's sporadic - with the DP43TF I always have troubles the EBU. Had to flash off a USB stick.

[Eandori]

How many times do I have to post before I can post links? There's a lot of reviews I wanted to point you guys to.

[Eandori]

Here's some nice reviews on the Kingsberg board, it's actually out there winning benchmarks and getting very very nice scores. Again, this board is rock solid.

Benchmark Reviews "Benchmark Reviews Golden Tachometer Award"
benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=364&Itemid=69
- A nice review where they even talk about Lynnfield Architecture features and lots of nice pictures of the board with feature descriptions.

PC Perspective - Won the "Gold Award"
pcper.com/article.php?aid=798
- I like this review because they are just about the only ones to show BIOS Setup screens. Especially check out the new PCI/PCIe page... I bet you guys will like that.

This is one of the first available boards that utilize the P55 chipset and support the LGA 1156 socket and we couldn't have been more impressed with the overall performance results we experienced using this board. It didn't matter if we were running gaming benchmarks, multimedia tests, or overclocking, the DP55KG seemed to have a balanced approach to providing the user more than enough power and performance when doing any of these operations using this motherboard.

Hi Tech Legion - Read his own conclusion from this review
hitechlegion.com/reviews/processors/1280

Reviewer's Opinion

I'm not a fan boy of Intel or AMD, I normally use what my budget can afford and what will give me better returns for my money. For years I had used AMD processors and prior to that I used Intel. Face it, no matter what your budget, you want performance. You look for a system that will suit or exceed your computing needs. With the new Core Series (Lynnfield), Intel has leveled the playing field and has returned to giving those with a smaller budget an option. An option to exceed their everyday computer needs. Normally when I test new systems (Processors/Motherboards), I expect some quirks and there are always one or two. This was not the case, at least for me with the setups that were run.

Drivers Heaven - scored 9.2 out of 10
driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=837&pageid=4

At Driverheaven we are continually impressed by the Extreme Series boards which Intel produce. On numerous occasions we have rated them highly, mainly for the excellent performance they offer but most notably due to the exceptional stability and durability we have experienced. To this day our original D975XBX2 is still running without issue, despite being stressed on a daily basis and we see no reason why the DP55KG would be any different. What we can say for sure is that in terms of performance and features the latest release from Intel is impressive. Also worth noting is that where the Asus board is excellent at assisting novice overclockers, Intel makes updating the BIOS easy for everyone with their Express BIOS tool.

... note the mention of how easy it was to update BIOS

What's my reaction to all these reviews on the board we worked so hard on? I wish all of them downloaded the latest BIOS so they could see the updated GUI to the BIOS Setup Screen, but they did catch much of what really was unique and special about this board. Of course there are nice things that reviewers miss, and there's assumptions they sometimes make where we think we fail but we didn't, (like blaming us for some PCIe video cards falsely reporting themselves as 2.5 GT/s) but that's part of the market.

Overall, the reviews speak for themselves.