OC'rs help w OCZ mem/OC'ing Pls

Butcher · 10-02-2005, 10:41 PM

Hello Oc'rs: Here is a problem I'm having. I used to run my sys very fine, using OCZ PC3700 El Duo Platinum. A few weeks ago that memory failed, and in the RMA process OCZ sent me PC4200 Platinum, tagged as 2.5 3 3 8. OCZ told me the PC3700 is phased out. The PC4200 shows up as 2.5 4 4 8 in SPD in Bios, which I don't understand why there is a desparity there.
I tried for hours and days to get good tight timings with cpu overclocked. Cpu will overclock real stable up to 3.2Ghz, especially with 2.5 3 3 6, but feel in windows is not very snappy, and I don't like to deal with the heat issue. So, I went back to cpu stock 2.8 and tighten memory.
The memory is stable at 2 2 3 6 with cpu @ 2.8, and system IS really snappy, with one frightening exception. When I enabled PAT with 2 2 3 6 memory, and booted, the video went really unstable. I could barely see mem Test 86, so I raised the video voltage from 1.5 to 1.6. I booted again into mem tester 86, and things seem stable.
During the boot into windows process the video still does some wobbling in the background, but when entering windows things are stable.
So, should I relax or is there somthing left for me to do to further stablize things or just the video? It appears that tightening the memory timings affects the video, which I did not know?

This memory apprently just will not do tight timings when I oc cpu. I get all sorts of memory failures in mem tstr 86 if I go below 2 3 3 7/6 at any oc. Highest FSB is 233/466. If there is somthing I'm missing please let me know. Cpu heat at highest OC with Zalman cooler is around 43/44 idle.
B.

sys:
P4C800E Dlx
BIOS 1021F
cpu 2.8ghz@2.8
cpu cooler Zalman 9600
WD Raptors: 74gb 2ea in intel RAID0 & 2 ea 34gb in Prom RAID0
Lianli 2 80mm fans in, 2 80mm out, 1 at top & 1 at back
Zalman 400B PS
mem: OCZ PC4200 El Duo Platinum SPD 2.5 4 4 8, but tagged as 2.5 3 3 8
mem: now set @2 2 3 6 @ 2.85volts PAT enabled
Probe temps: cpu 36 & mB 33
VGA: Radeon 9600, not oc'd, using just the latest drivers only - no control panel.

Butcher · 10-03-2005, 05:50 PM

Well, OCZ responded to my inquiry about the difference in their marking the memory, and the SPD:

Your memory modules should be programmed to 2.5-4-4-10 timings. I checked the website before I wrote this email and it showed 2.5-4-4-10. I suspect that it was updated over the weekend as we may have just changed our timing recently. That could also explain the sticker.

Sincerely,

I know OCZ ultimately reserves the right to do what they want and keep the lifetime warrenty, but lo and behold, by OCZ replacing my fast PC3700 with a much slower PC4200 disappointed me.

Eldonko · 10-03-2005, 06:14 PM

Maybe I am not understanding your post but how is the 4200 slower? 4200EL is either TCCD or TCC5 and is made to run at high speeds with relaxed timings (2.5-3-3 and 2.5-4-4). I had the exact same RAM and it was great stuff, did DDR626 @ 2.5-4-4 (see below).

You are not going to be able to run @ 2-2-3 even at 200Mhz probably. The RAM is binned to run high speeds with looser timings, not low speeds with tight.

Butcher · 10-03-2005, 10:38 PM

Thanks for your reply El.

Yes, that is my point. My PC3700 worked great with tight timings with cpu at 3.0ghz. Tight timings at a lower fsb. So, with this PC4200, I have to up the FSB, which I can go up to 233 @ 1:1 with this loose timings, but the feel in windows is not at all that good. In addition, there is some ten degrees more of cpu heat that causes my fans to up their rpms and noise to boot.

So, I am now running the cpu at stock 2.8 with temps ~32 so fan speeds are slow and system is quiet. The memory timings now are at 2 2 3 6, and the system is very quickly responsive, like it was with my PC3700. But, I was worried about the bit of video instability that accompanied these tight settings. It was the first time I ever ecountered it. I raised the voltage on the video card to 1.6, and the video seems to be stable now.
My question was do I have to concern myself about this set up now?

Bye the way, I just cannot imagine going beyond a 233 fsb with my setup since my 2.8ghz cpu would be beyond 3.2ghz!

Thanks again for your discussion.
B.

Eldonko · 10-04-2005, 11:27 AM

Bottom line is OCZ upgraded your RAM because the 3700 is discontinued. What you got is better, it's just unfortunate that you can't use the RAM to it's full potential.

If you want to run 2-2-2, maybe you should ask OCZ to switch your RAM for some 3200 plat rev 2 or some 3500 gold. That or you could sell it and buy plat rev 2 and have $$ left over prolly.

SteveOCZ · 10-04-2005, 04:19 PM

This is the deal. The pc4200 platinum EL is rated CL 2.5-3-3-8 as shown here so I'm not sure what Jimmy was talking about with the looser timings. The pc3700 platinum wasn't rated at 2-2-2 timings ever, so if you had it running at low timings like that you were lucky. The 4200EL platinum is great ram. SPD's are written looser than the actual stock timings of the ram to ensure there are no problems with booting on the first go with all motherboards.

If you're really unhappy with the ram you can email Jimmy back and he may (no promises from me) be able to change you out for something like that pc3500GX.

btw it would be nice if you edited out Jimmy’s address from your post so he doesn't get spammed

PCBruiser · 10-04-2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveOCZ

btw it would be nice if you edited out Jimmy’s address from your post so he doesn't get spammed

I took care of that Steve.

Butcher · 10-04-2005, 06:22 PM

I took better care of that. I apologize for the oversight. Now what about my current set up? Is there a dangerous relationship between the tight timings and video? I upped the video voltage to 1.6 and overall everything is stable at 2 2 3 6.

I used my APO box to get my broken RAM to OCZ, cost me around $17.00. It took only two days, but after a week of apparent testing or whatever, it took an additional two weeks to get back to me. Cost OCZ $3.00+ cents. All of that bothered me because folks here on our board always speak of "overnight" receipt or exceptionally fast return, even using expensive FeDEx. So I was not very pleased about all of that. I did not even want to bring it up on our board, but the process of arriving at timings that suited my set up frustrated me.

Hope I haven't offended anybody.

Pls let me know about that video card at 1.6 volts and current 2 2 3 6 timings.

thanks,
B.

PCBruiser · 10-04-2005, 06:32 PM

Sometimes increasing the vAGP does, in fact, improve system stability. Not for every system combination or board, but I have had some luck with some setups improving timings and overclocking capabilities increasing the vAGP like that. What I think it actually does for you is reduce the chance of a voltage droop from reaching a critical level and effecting stabiltity.

Butcher · 10-04-2005, 06:46 PM

Thanks for that info. I had been a bit frightened that doing that might cause more problems for me. And, one more question please.
When I used my PC3700 for over a year, maybe two, can't quite remember, running the dual kit at 2 2 2 timings, do you think that doing that contributed to their eventual failure? If running overtight timings result in shorter life, then I will loosen up my current timings.
Sorry to be such a pain.
B.

PCBruiser · 10-04-2005, 06:49 PM

First, you are no pain, m8. Second, I don't personally think that tight timings will hurt RAM, excess voltage, meaning heat, will. AFAIK, overtight timings will just mean you can't boot or crash in Windows. But, I would appreciate any comment a real expert like SteveOCZ might have on that.

Butcher · 10-04-2005, 06:57 PM

I am all ears too.
B.

SteveOCZ · 10-05-2005, 05:23 AM

CAS = 2
tRP = 2
tRCD = 3
tRAS = 6
burst length = 8

DRAM Idle Timer = infinite
Refresh Rate = 15.6
Spread Spectrum = Disabled

ICH Delayed Transaction = disabled

vAGP was linked to the chipset voltage on the board you have. Many people found that raising the vagp voltage allowed them to overclock further.

We do ship with FedEx worldwide express for all international RMA's so I don't know why it would have taken that long to get back to you

Butcher · 10-05-2005, 07:39 AM

I requested that the mem be returned via USPS to my APO address so it would be less expensive and faster than FedX because it wouldn't go through customs and be transferred from one truck to another, but I didn't count on it being sent the cheapest way, which took nearly two weeks instead two or three days, which costs about fifteen dollars more. Now that I have it and everything is going well, I have settled down and things are much better.
Just had to get over the initial disappointment that's all. Gotta have more patients in my old age!
Thank you PCBruiser and OCZ Steve for all of that info. I feel comfortable that my system is back to normal now.
Sorry again if I rufulled any feathers.
By the way, I am now considering buying the DDR2 Gold from another Steve who sells OCZ memory for use in a new system I am planning. Just not sure of which ASUS board or Intel chipset yet. So I haven't lost faith in OCZ products.
B.

SteveOCZ · 10-10-2005, 07:27 AM

Glad to hear it

10-02-2005, 10:41 PM	#1
Butcher chop, chop, yummy, yum Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 1,217	OC'rs help w OCZ mem/OC'ing Pls Hello Oc'rs: Here is a problem I'm having. I used to run my sys very fine, using OCZ PC3700 El Duo Platinum. A few weeks ago that memory failed, and in the RMA process OCZ sent me PC4200 Platinum, tagged as 2.5 3 3 8. OCZ told me the PC3700 is phased out. The PC4200 shows up as 2.5 4 4 8 in SPD in Bios, which I don't understand why there is a desparity there. I tried for hours and days to get good tight timings with cpu overclocked. Cpu will overclock real stable up to 3.2Ghz, especially with 2.5 3 3 6, but feel in windows is not very snappy, and I don't like to deal with the heat issue. So, I went back to cpu stock 2.8 and tighten memory. The memory is stable at 2 2 3 6 with cpu @ 2.8, and system IS really snappy, with one frightening exception. When I enabled PAT with 2 2 3 6 memory, and booted, the video went really unstable. I could barely see mem Test 86, so I raised the video voltage from 1.5 to 1.6. I booted again into mem tester 86, and things seem stable. During the boot into windows process the video still does some wobbling in the background, but when entering windows things are stable. So, should I relax or is there somthing left for me to do to further stablize things or just the video? It appears that tightening the memory timings affects the video, which I did not know? This memory apprently just will not do tight timings when I oc cpu. I get all sorts of memory failures in mem tstr 86 if I go below 2 3 3 7/6 at any oc. Highest FSB is 233/466. If there is somthing I'm missing please let me know. Cpu heat at highest OC with Zalman cooler is around 43/44 idle. B. sys: P4C800E Dlx BIOS 1021F cpu 2.8ghz@2.8 cpu cooler Zalman 9600 WD Raptors: 74gb 2ea in intel RAID0 & 2 ea 34gb in Prom RAID0 Lianli 2 80mm fans in, 2 80mm out, 1 at top & 1 at back Zalman 400B PS mem: OCZ PC4200 El Duo Platinum SPD 2.5 4 4 8, but tagged as 2.5 3 3 8 mem: now set @2 2 3 6 @ 2.85volts PAT enabled Probe temps: cpu 36 & mB 33 VGA: Radeon 9600, not oc'd, using just the latest drivers only - no control panel. __________________ Building, maintaining, and fighting with computers are fun, but expensive, things to do. Last edited by Butcher : 10-03-2005 at 03:16 AM.
(Offline)

10-03-2005, 05:50 PM	#2
Butcher chop, chop, yummy, yum Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 1,217	Well, OCZ responded to my inquiry about the difference in their marking the memory, and the SPD: Your memory modules should be programmed to 2.5-4-4-10 timings. I checked the website before I wrote this email and it showed 2.5-4-4-10. I suspect that it was updated over the weekend as we may have just changed our timing recently. That could also explain the sticker. Sincerely, I know OCZ ultimately reserves the right to do what they want and keep the lifetime warrenty, but lo and behold, by OCZ replacing my fast PC3700 with a much slower PC4200 disappointed me. __________________ Building, maintaining, and fighting with computers are fun, but expensive, things to do. Last edited by Butcher : 10-04-2005 at 06:25 PM.
(Offline)

10-03-2005, 06:14 PM	#3
Eldonko Revolutionary Mule Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 2,987	Maybe I am not understanding your post but how is the 4200 slower? 4200EL is either TCCD or TCC5 and is made to run at high speeds with relaxed timings (2.5-3-3 and 2.5-4-4). I had the exact same RAM and it was great stuff, did DDR626 @ 2.5-4-4 (see below). You are not going to be able to run @ 2-2-3 even at 200Mhz probably. The RAM is binned to run high speeds with looser timings, not low speeds with tight. __________________ PM me for Mushkin questions or support.
(Offline)

10-03-2005, 10:38 PM	#4
Butcher chop, chop, yummy, yum Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 1,217	Thanks for your reply El. Yes, that is my point. My PC3700 worked great with tight timings with cpu at 3.0ghz. Tight timings at a lower fsb. So, with this PC4200, I have to up the FSB, which I can go up to 233 @ 1:1 with this loose timings, but the feel in windows is not at all that good. In addition, there is some ten degrees more of cpu heat that causes my fans to up their rpms and noise to boot. So, I am now running the cpu at stock 2.8 with temps ~32 so fan speeds are slow and system is quiet. The memory timings now are at 2 2 3 6, and the system is very quickly responsive, like it was with my PC3700. But, I was worried about the bit of video instability that accompanied these tight settings. It was the first time I ever ecountered it. I raised the voltage on the video card to 1.6, and the video seems to be stable now. My question was do I have to concern myself about this set up now? Bye the way, I just cannot imagine going beyond a 233 fsb with my setup since my 2.8ghz cpu would be beyond 3.2ghz! Thanks again for your discussion. B. __________________ Building, maintaining, and fighting with computers are fun, but expensive, things to do.
(Offline)

10-04-2005, 11:27 AM	#5
Eldonko Revolutionary Mule Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 2,987	Bottom line is OCZ upgraded your RAM because the 3700 is discontinued. What you got is better, it's just unfortunate that you can't use the RAM to it's full potential. If you want to run 2-2-2, maybe you should ask OCZ to switch your RAM for some 3200 plat rev 2 or some 3500 gold. That or you could sell it and buy plat rev 2 and have $$ left over prolly. __________________ PM me for Mushkin questions or support.
(Offline)

10-04-2005, 04:19 PM	#6
SteveOCZ Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Estonia Posts: 39	This is the deal. The pc4200 platinum EL is rated CL 2.5-3-3-8 as shown here so I'm not sure what Jimmy was talking about with the looser timings. The pc3700 platinum wasn't rated at 2-2-2 timings ever, so if you had it running at low timings like that you were lucky. The 4200EL platinum is great ram. SPD's are written looser than the actual stock timings of the ram to ensure there are no problems with booting on the first go with all motherboards. If you're really unhappy with the ram you can email Jimmy back and he may (no promises from me) be able to change you out for something like that pc3500GX. btw it would be nice if you edited out Jimmy’s address from your post so he doesn't get spammed __________________ I work for OCZ. If your having a problem with any of our products or want some overclocking tips feel free to PM or email me
(Offline)

10-04-2005, 06:22 PM	#8
Butcher chop, chop, yummy, yum Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 1,217	I took better care of that. I apologize for the oversight. Now what about my current set up? Is there a dangerous relationship between the tight timings and video? I upped the video voltage to 1.6 and overall everything is stable at 2 2 3 6. I used my APO box to get my broken RAM to OCZ, cost me around $17.00. It took only two days, but after a week of apparent testing or whatever, it took an additional two weeks to get back to me. Cost OCZ $3.00+ cents. All of that bothered me because folks here on our board always speak of "overnight" receipt or exceptionally fast return, even using expensive FeDEx. So I was not very pleased about all of that. I did not even want to bring it up on our board, but the process of arriving at timings that suited my set up frustrated me. Hope I haven't offended anybody. Pls let me know about that video card at 1.6 volts and current 2 2 3 6 timings. thanks, B. __________________ Building, maintaining, and fighting with computers are fun, but expensive, things to do.
(Offline)

10-04-2005, 06:32 PM	#9
PCBruiser Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 13,497	Sometimes increasing the vAGP does, in fact, improve system stability. Not for every system combination or board, but I have had some luck with some setups improving timings and overclocking capabilities increasing the vAGP like that. What I think it actually does for you is reduce the chance of a voltage droop from reaching a critical level and effecting stabiltity.
(Offline)

10-04-2005, 06:46 PM	#10
Butcher chop, chop, yummy, yum Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 1,217	Thanks for that info. I had been a bit frightened that doing that might cause more problems for me. And, one more question please. When I used my PC3700 for over a year, maybe two, can't quite remember, running the dual kit at 2 2 2 timings, do you think that doing that contributed to their eventual failure? If running overtight timings result in shorter life, then I will loosen up my current timings. Sorry to be such a pain. B. __________________ Building, maintaining, and fighting with computers are fun, but expensive, things to do.
(Offline)

10-04-2005, 06:49 PM	#11
PCBruiser Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 13,497	First, you are no pain, m8. Second, I don't personally think that tight timings will hurt RAM, excess voltage, meaning heat, will. AFAIK, overtight timings will just mean you can't boot or crash in Windows. But, I would appreciate any comment a real expert like SteveOCZ might have on that.
(Offline)

10-04-2005, 06:57 PM	#12
Butcher chop, chop, yummy, yum Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 1,217	I am all ears too. B. __________________ Building, maintaining, and fighting with computers are fun, but expensive, things to do.
(Offline)

10-05-2005, 05:23 AM	#13
SteveOCZ Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Estonia Posts: 39	CAS = 2 tRP = 2 tRCD = 3 tRAS = 6 burst length = 8 DRAM Idle Timer = infinite Refresh Rate = 15.6 Spread Spectrum = Disabled ICH Delayed Transaction = disabled vAGP was linked to the chipset voltage on the board you have. Many people found that raising the vagp voltage allowed them to overclock further. We do ship with FedEx worldwide express for all international RMA's so I don't know why it would have taken that long to get back to you __________________ I work for OCZ. If your having a problem with any of our products or want some overclocking tips feel free to PM or email me
(Offline)

10-05-2005, 07:39 AM	#14
Butcher chop, chop, yummy, yum Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Columbia, Maryland Posts: 1,217	I requested that the mem be returned via USPS to my APO address so it would be less expensive and faster than FedX because it wouldn't go through customs and be transferred from one truck to another, but I didn't count on it being sent the cheapest way, which took nearly two weeks instead two or three days, which costs about fifteen dollars more. Now that I have it and everything is going well, I have settled down and things are much better. Just had to get over the initial disappointment that's all. Gotta have more patients in my old age! Thank you PCBruiser and OCZ Steve for all of that info. I feel comfortable that my system is back to normal now. Sorry again if I rufulled any feathers. By the way, I am now considering buying the DDR2 Gold from another Steve who sells OCZ memory for use in a new system I am planning. Just not sure of which ASUS board or Intel chipset yet. So I haven't lost faith in OCZ products. B. __________________ Building, maintaining, and fighting with computers are fun, but expensive, things to do.
(Offline)

10-10-2005, 07:27 AM	#15
SteveOCZ Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Estonia Posts: 39	Glad to hear it __________________ I work for OCZ. If your having a problem with any of our products or want some overclocking tips feel free to PM or email me
(Offline)

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