How to get best audio playback from a PC ?

[plainman007]

Dear Ctal,

The problem isnt there when i play out thru my yamaha mixer and JBL pa speakers. However i couldnt test at full volume as i wudnt wouldnt want to wake the neighbourhood. But volume seemed to be ok on low volume itself. I will however get a chance to try at higher output levels in the day time and check for distortion.

Thanks for your help Ctal. .

[ctal]

So it sounds like my theory is probably correct. See if there is a setting in the sound card control panel/software to change the function of the green jack from speakers to headphones. If not, or if there is but it does not fix the problem, then you will have to get a pair of headphones with higher impedance, or else a suitable matching transformer (I believe Shure makes some).

Regards,
-- Al

[plainman007]

Yes you were correct ! Thats why i wanted to ask you before i set-up. The PA thing is a large rig and setting it up alone is a big pain in the back. And after all that if there is more tweaking on the system end i would be really stuck breaking it down and setting it up again and again for testing. Thats why i said maybe its raw unamped sound and maybe needs to go thru the professional set up. But i didnt want to do it till you flagged me off on it. Plus i didnt know there were headphones with impedance transformers. I will soon get to play this in front of a crowd and will let you know how it holds up at high volumes.

Adios Amigo...

[ctal]

You're welcome!

But just to clarify, I didn't mean "headphones with impedance transformers." I meant to either get a higher impedance headphone, OR to get an impedance transformer to use in conjunction with your existing headphones.

Good luck with the performance!

-- Al

[plainman007]

Well ill keep that in mind. Thanks for clarifying. But im still surprised Creative Cards gves you the option to use their cards with headphones or they are meant only for non preamped sources like my pro rig. Im sure there must be a lot of people using sound cards who migh want to suddenly work with headphones. And a good sound card doesnt allow for this ? Very strange. That way the onboard sound itself is a little better in versatility,,,,not quality however. But i must add. On board sound seems to be a terrific option if your listening on just headphones. My other workstation runs with onboard sound and using the intel high definition audio panel. When switched to headphones they work terrific. The quality is amazing and pure. Im now beggining to suspect that even before putting in the card i dont remember if i had the option still in headphones or line out...

I tried a lot of things but just not sure.

Regards

[ctal]

Originally Posted by plainman007

i dont remember if i had the option still in headphones or line out

But after putting in the card, and disabling the onboard sound, have you right-clicked on the sound icon in the systray area (lower right of the screen), and gone through the options there, to see if headphones can be specified?

Also, what model headphones are they? If information on them is available on the web, I could look into what impedance they are and see where that leads.

Regards,
-- Al

[plainman007]

Hi Ctal,

My headphones are Panasonic RH-HT010.

In the Sound Blaster control panel there is no mode for headphones (surprisingly). Only 2.1 or 4 or 5.1 speakers. But then in windows > control panel > sound and audio devices there the default windows drop down list allows you to pick Headphones, desktop speakers, monitor speakers etc etc right down to 7.1 channel setups. These settings never used to show before and i think theyve been added in by the SB card. The windows audio control panel also shows SB 5.1 as the current sound handler. But If i click on it it allows me to swtch to Sigmatel Audio HD as the default handler. I dont know how to make a clean wipe out of all windows default sound drivers. Also i just noticed that the sound blaster manual sheet says it very important to uninstall any other sound drivers before even inserting the card into the PCI slot.

Even though i got everything working i opened out volume in the day time to check it. Its ok. But just ok. I remember my portable media player with its internal volume at half feeding my pro rig would sound louder than this PC. In fact to get this volume i have had to set wav and SB card volume at fullest level. Only then does it sound decent on my pro rig. Is it back to XP reinstall time ? But what sort of audio manufacturer gives you a card which cannot play back decently on a normal headphone. When all my systems sound fantastic with headphones on. Because i might need to preview something on heaphones without the public hearing it during setup etc.

Regards

[ctal]

There is no reason to reinstall Windows, regardless of whether the problem is in the software, or is due to high output impedance of the hardware (which I suspect is the case, even though it doesn't seem to make sense that a sound card would be designed without the capability of driving typical low impedance headphones).

Perhaps the reason the Soundblaster control panel doesn't offer a headphone option is that its hardware can't support it. The Windows settings figure to be more generic and universal.

When you turned off the mobo's sound, did you "disable" it in device manager, or "uninstall" it. If you "uninstalled" it, Windows would have reinstalled it the next time you booted up. Use the "disable" function, if you already haven't.

Try changing the default sound controller to the Windows one, and changing the mode to headphones, and see if that helps (although I suspect it won't).

To redo the sound card installation (without reinstalling Windows!), uninstall all Soundblaster software (either under Start/All Programs/Soundblaster or Creative or whatever), and/or under Add/Remove Programs. Then "uninstall" any Soundblaster things that are left under "Sound, Video, and Game Controllers" in device manager. On the next reboot Windows will re-detect the card and allow you to either reinstall the Soundblaster drivers, or if you cancel out of that box, I think it will set up the Windows sound control panel as the default.

You should also look at the settings under "Sounds and Audio Devices" in the Windows control panel.

Hope that is of some help,
-- Al

[plainman007]

Yes i did try most of what your suggesting. I have also disabled the windows sound on sigmatel driver in the device manager. Point to note is that when i re-enable windows sound to test it. The card wouldnt work and id have to anyway reconnect the jack into the Motherboard sound out. And that works well with headphones. But jarrs and muffles sound on pro rigs. The intel audio studio panel is optional when using windows MB sound. The MB is also by default a intel HD sound 5.1. If you turn it on you get better clarity and depth with added punch because it activates the DSP presets (hall, action movie, etc) but doesnt have even one settig for speech or none. If it works it will only work with one of the stupid DSP presets. How versatile !.

My workstation is much better in this aspect and has a slightly same structure. Onboard sound is Dolby 5.1. And it has its add on element called INtel HD Audio. That at least has a 'none' preset in the DSP panel and its the clearest and most powerful audio ive ever heard on a headphone thru a PC. I can never go past 30% on volume as it gets too loud. BUT never sounds distorted.

Regards...

[ctal]

Hi Plainman,

You'll find this thread to be of interest, especially post 9:

Sound Cards for Headphones - Hydrogenaudio Forums

The thread pretty much confirms what I've been saying -- you are using a line-level output (high impedance) to drive low impedance headphones. It's akin (although to a much lesser degree) to driving loudspeakers without a power amplifier, or a receiver that contains a power amplifier.

Why do the headphones work ok with the other sources? It depends on the particular output impedance and the drive capability of each card, which in the case of inexpensive consumer sound cards is (absurdly) usually not specified.

I don't think high impedance headphones would necessarily work well, either. They would resolve the impedance incompatibility, but would probably be less efficient and require more power than the low impedance model you are using.

So you need something that is explicitly specified as capable of driving headphones, or something that you know to be capable of doing that, based on comments from others. Either a different card, or an external amplifier or dac. That's about all I can suggest.

Regards,
-- Al

[plainman007]

Hi Ctal,

Thanks I will read the link right away. I guess ill have to live with it the way it is. I might have to get him to listen to the output from the mixer or something. Sound is such an intangible thing that it makes things very tough to judge and resolve easily. Its somewhat like tea tasting. lol.

Thanks a ton anyway for all the help youve rendered as always.

[ctal]

Originally Posted by plainman007

Sound is such an intangible thing that it makes things very tough to judge and resolve easily. Its somewhat like tea tasting. lol.

Well said! Ask 10 audiophiles a yes or no question and you'll get 12 different answers (10 at first, then a couple of them will change their minds).

Check out this thread for a good laugh. It is at the Audiogon audiophile forum, which is the other forum I participate in regularly besides ABX:

AudiogoN Forums: there are 4 answers; refer to them by number

-- Al

[plainman007]

LOL...that was nice. Relieved my stress by reading that ! That forum sounds like a humour club.

[ctal]

Now here is something that might be exactly what you need to drive your headphones, and which would add a lot of additional capabilities that might be useful in the future as well. The price isn't any more than that of a lot of consumer-grade pos soundcards, and it has a whole lot more features and comes from a well regarded and widely used pro audio manufacturer:

Tascam | US-144 Audio/MIDI Interface | US-144 | B&H Photo Video

HTH,

-- Al

[plainman007]

Hi Ctal,

Thanks for the link. It looks good (tempting).
You dont get such products where i live.
Plus support is nil here for these kind of products.

I had a mini video server. Would play fantastic HD quality.
Suddenly it started giving scratchy sounding audio.
Contact the manufacturer and they say $100 for the repair + about $200 for shipping. Which is = COSTLIER than the original product. They want you to throw it and buy a new one .

Warm Regards.....