How to get best audio playback from a PC ?

plainman007 · 06-17-2009, 04:45 AM

Hi,

What is the best way to output sound from a pc. My system has only a single pin available from the back. So im using a single ep pin to to rc (red, white) sound out and feeding the Rc's into my yamaha mixer. So its currently using the intel onboard sound from the motherboard. Im somehow unhappy with the sound. Its muddy and lacks volume by about 30% compared to a media player feeding thru the same RC. So i assume its the PC thats messing it up. It also has this intel audio studio element which runs in the system tray whose settings offer rock, studio, stadium and such presets, which i think is adding to the muddiness. If i turn off the entire audio studio the sound volume gets real low even thought the system vol and wav vol sliders in the system default sound panel are set to full. Switch on Intel Audio Studio and it gets louder but muddy.

So whats the answer to getting clearest sound for a professional theatrical presentation by playing wav files from the computer. A sound card ???

Thanks in advance....

**ctal** · 06-17-2009, 09:36 AM

Greetings once again!

The best way is to use a digital output of the pc (spdif preferably, if the pc has it, or usb otherwise), and connect it into an external dac (digital to analog converter). Some dacs have spdif inputs, some have usb inputs, some have both. Both should generally work equally well, but on a marginal computer usb might be more prone to occasional breakups or dropouts.

Here is a link to some audiophile-oriented dacs:

Digital Converters-Audio Advisor

And to some professionally-oriented dacs:

Analog-Digital Audio Converters | B&H Photo Video

The second best method, which is less expensive, would be to add a sound card. I suggest looking through the ones at NewEgg.com, and the user comments on them, and using that information to choose among the ones which are available in your area.

The reasons that an external dac would be preferable to an internal sound card are:

-- The external dac's sound quality is likely to be much better, especially when heard through a high quality sound system. Although it will cost considerably more than a typical sound card.
-- The analog audio circuits and signals are kept physically away from the computer, which is important because computer chips are potent rfi/emi generators.
-- Sound cards generally have flimsy, unreliable 1/8 inch mini-jacks, which are ridiculous to use in any serious application.

If you choose to go the sound card route, and the pc does not presently have a spdif output, it would make sense to choose a sound card which has a spdif output (some of them do, some of them don't). That way you would have the flexibility to add a spdif-compatible external dac at a later time.

Regards,
-- Al

plainman007 · 06-17-2009, 01:43 PM

Hi, Nice to hear from you Ctal !

Thanks for your inputs.

I dont think i can go the DAC route. I would be happy getting CD player quality. Mostly the sound output will go into a sound mixer and then into stage amplification systems such as crown amplifiers and such other equipment which will drive stage/auditorium speakers.

I think i can go for the sound card option as its more affordable and makes sense if it breaks down. I have lost my faith in expensive electronics Ctal. They seem to break down every now and then. And most of these things are unserviceable in my country. It costs a huge amount to fedex the equipment to and fro to the USA and then pay 50% of the equipment cost as repair cost. I doubt DAC's may even be available in my city. So i think ill pickup a sound card. I need to pick up a card which will just do excellent 2 channel audio. Are there cards that will just do stereo as i dont need 5.1 etc. I think if i go the SPDIF route then id have to go with a DAC right ?

Warm Regards....

**ctal** · 06-17-2009, 01:56 PM

Most sound cards these days have multi-channel capability, but you can easily set them in the software for two-channel output. SPDIF is digital, so you would need a dac to use it, but I suggested choosing a sound card which has a SPDIF output (in addition to the normal analog outputs) in case you want to add a dac later. Check out the cards at NewEgg.com, and you'll get a good idea of what is available.

-- Al

plainman007 · 06-18-2009, 08:28 AM

Hi Ctal,

I spoke to the computer accessory guys and its very difficult to find a 2 channel card. All of them seem to be 5.1 cards. They have Creative Cards mainly and another brand called Intex. Theyve not even heard of M Audio etc.

. Will a 5.1 card set to 2 channel output do proper justice to the 2 channel audio ? If so is it ok to go with Creative ?

I also have a second question. Once a sound card is installed does the system's onboard audio get deactivated or does the sound still go thru the onboard processing and things such as microsoft sound mapping or something like that. I was hoping the sound signals go straight from the HDD to the sound card with no interferences inbetween.

This is the card my dealer has ready...Creative Sound Blaster 5.1 VX Sound Card - Quality 5.1 surround audio
Ive also noticed that none of the sound cards have exclusive RC (Red & White Connectors) to extract left and right channel stereo independently. All offer single pin outs stereo/center/surround/sub so stereo will again have to be taken out using a single pin to stereo cable right ? Is that ok for clear sound ?

Thanks

**ctal** · 06-18-2009, 09:23 AM

Yes, as I mentioned most sound cards these days have multi-channel capability, but I'm just about certain that nothing is sacrificed by using a multi-channel card for two-channel playback, with its software set correspondingly.

Creative is the leading maker of consumer-oriented sound cards. I don't think you'll go wrong with them, although I'd suggest checking the user comments at NewEgg.com on the particular card you are considering. But keep in mind that just about any piece of hardware will have some negative comments posted about it there -- the people who have problems seem to be disproportionately represented.

There is no "direct path" between the hdd and the sound card, just as there is normally no direct data path between any two devices in a computer. Everything has to go through Windows, as well as a lot of hardware on the motherboard, but I don't see any downside to that.

Keep in mind that some sound cards are designed for PCI-e slots, and some for PCI slots, and the two are not compatible. So see what kind of spare card slots you have on your computer, and choose the card accordingly.

Once you install the card, the existing sound function will continue to be functional unless you turn it off in the bios or in the Windows device manager. It is slightly preferable to turn it off in the bios, so that Windows won't see it at all.

Good luck!

-- Al

plainman007 · 06-18-2009, 10:07 AM

Thanks Ctal.

Is it ok to use a cable that splits the single pin output into a seperate RC for left and right input into the mixer ?

The dealer also suggested this card Creative Sound Blaster Audigy Value Sound Card - High-quality 24-bit, 7.1 audio

which of these two would you recommend for my application ?

The only difference seems to be that the audigy is 7.1 with 100db SN Ratio. And the Formerly mentioned product has 5.1 with 98db SN Ratio.

Thanks a ton !

**ctal** · 06-18-2009, 10:31 AM

Between those two, I'd go with the 7.1 card, not because of the s/n difference, but because it is somewhat newer and because it has a spdif output, in case you want to add an external dac in the future.

But do check out the user comments on it at NewEgg:

Customer Reviews Of Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Value SB0400 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - OEM

Customer Reviews Of Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Value SB0400 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail

It got a very good percentage of positive comments, but the negative comments focused on problems with the software, which are probably system dependent to some extent. You should create a drive image before doing the installation, and (at least initially) just install the necessary drivers, not any other optional software which is likely to be garbage.

Inevitably with a consumer-oriented sound card you have to break out the 1/8" stereo mini-jack with a cable that adapts it to separate left and right rca (or other) connectors. There is nothing wrong with that technically, but the problem is that those jacks suck mechanically. Repeated re-insertions, or slight to moderate tugging on the cable, will cause one of the channels or the ground connection to be interrupted, at least momentarily, unless the jack grips the plug very tightly (which is often not the case).

Regards,
-- Al

plainman007 · 06-18-2009, 12:31 PM

Hi,

Thanks for taking the effort. I am now browsing the links you provided.
Will keep you posted.

Warm Regards..

plainman007 · 06-18-2009, 02:37 PM

Hi,

I read the reviews Ctal. I think the audigy value you have mention has '2' mentioned in it. This seems to be different from the model in my country which doesnt have the 2 in the name. Because the card discussed in your link says 192khz. Whereas the 'audigy value' mentioned in the site Creative Labs : Home Page - The leader in Digital Entertainment for your PC and the Internet etc mentioned on 24bit/96khz and not 192khz.

Ill anyway try to get one of these

.

Thanks

**ctal** · 06-18-2009, 02:50 PM

Hmm, yes I hadn't noticed that. But NewEgg doesn't have any listings for the non-"2" version, and in fact lists the "2" as discontinued. But I looked at the Creative site you linked to, and I don't see any differences which would be significant for your purposes.

And I would treat the cautionary comments some users made about software installation for the 2 version as likely to be entirely relevant! In other words, image your drive beforehand, and install as little of the software as possible, at least at first.

Good luck!
-- Al

plainman007 · 06-20-2009, 07:02 PM

Hi Ctal,,

Ive got and installed the card. I got a sound blaster 5.1 card. The delaer ripped me off and promised me an Audigy and he packed a Sound Blaster 5.1 not even 5.1 VX. WHats the difference between the VX and the normal 5.1 card i really dont know. I went to the site but the comparision chart shows nothing for the 5.1 card but shows 24bit/96Khz audio quality for the 5.1vx. But the former shows nothing on its specs panel. As if it has no special features. Which in this case im willing to believe.

I however fit the card in and it sounds like crap. I listened to it on a pair of headphones. Carefully calibrated (there is just 1 simple mixer and no fancy software that came with it) over an hour and it sounds flat but clear. No punch to the sound however. Raise the volume and it jars. The intel audio studio sigmatel onboard sound was a lot better

. At least on headphones it was,

. Maybe this is 'unadulterated' sound and needs to go into the professional amp and mixer that i have. That might sound better ??. But if you think he gave me a no good card then i think ill ask him to replace it.

Thanks....

**ctal** · 06-21-2009, 08:48 AM

Assuming that you plugged the headphones into the green jack, was there a setting in the software to specify headphones for the green jack, as opposed to the green jack providing a line-level output to powered speakers? If that were set wrong, or if software was not installed which allowed that kind of setting, you could be driving the presumably low impedance headphones with a high impedance line-level output circuit. That would produce the symptoms you described. And if that's the case then going into your line-level professional stuff would indeed provide much better results, not because it "adulterates" the sound, but because it would present a higher impedance (less of a load) to the sound-card than the headphones do.

That's about all I can think of at this point.

Regards,
-- Al

plainman007 · 06-21-2009, 11:57 AM

Ctal Hi,,

I just got my card replaced for another card Creative Soundblaster 5.1 VX this is the card that mentions 24bit/96khz sound. I plugged it in. Installed the neccesary elements except their own media organizing and playback software to avoid installing unneccesary stuff. The sound definitely is better in depth. But the volume is incredibly low. Ive got the wav and main volume sliders at full and i can just about hear the music etc that plays.

I dont see anything in bios to deactivate the system sound drivers. I manually from device manager deactvated the sigmatel onboard sound. Then i deleted the intel audio studio element from the control panel along with the intel high definition audio element. Still the sound is extremely low.

Should i reinstall windows ?

**ctal** · 06-21-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainman007

Should i reinstall windows ?

No. I'm still suspicious that you are using low impedance headphones on a high(er) impedance line-level output. That would account for all of the symptoms you've described. Try going into your pro setup instead of into the headphones.

Also, I'm always suspicious of 1/8 inch minijacks in terms of getting good contact. Gently and slightly jiggle the plug while it is inserted in the jack and see if the volume changes. Have the headphones away from your ears while you do that!

-- Al

06-17-2009, 04:45 AM	#1
plainman007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 377	How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Hi, What is the best way to output sound from a pc. My system has only a single pin available from the back. So im using a single ep pin to to rc (red, white) sound out and feeding the Rc's into my yamaha mixer. So its currently using the intel onboard sound from the motherboard. Im somehow unhappy with the sound. Its muddy and lacks volume by about 30% compared to a media player feeding thru the same RC. So i assume its the PC thats messing it up. It also has this intel audio studio element which runs in the system tray whose settings offer rock, studio, stadium and such presets, which i think is adding to the muddiness. If i turn off the entire audio studio the sound volume gets real low even thought the system vol and wav vol sliders in the system default sound panel are set to full. Switch on Intel Audio Studio and it gets louder but muddy. So whats the answer to getting clearest sound for a professional theatrical presentation by playing wav files from the computer. A sound card ??? Thanks in advance....
(Offline)

06-17-2009, 09:36 AM	#2
ctal Eschews Obfuscation Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 1,903	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Greetings once again! The best way is to use a digital output of the pc (spdif preferably, if the pc has it, or usb otherwise), and connect it into an external dac (digital to analog converter). Some dacs have spdif inputs, some have usb inputs, some have both. Both should generally work equally well, but on a marginal computer usb might be more prone to occasional breakups or dropouts. Here is a link to some audiophile-oriented dacs: Digital Converters-Audio Advisor And to some professionally-oriented dacs: Analog-Digital Audio Converters \| B&H Photo Video The second best method, which is less expensive, would be to add a sound card. I suggest looking through the ones at NewEgg.com, and the user comments on them, and using that information to choose among the ones which are available in your area. The reasons that an external dac would be preferable to an internal sound card are: -- The external dac's sound quality is likely to be much better, especially when heard through a high quality sound system. Although it will cost considerably more than a typical sound card. -- The analog audio circuits and signals are kept physically away from the computer, which is important because computer chips are potent rfi/emi generators. -- Sound cards generally have flimsy, unreliable 1/8 inch mini-jacks, which are ridiculous to use in any serious application. If you choose to go the sound card route, and the pc does not presently have a spdif output, it would make sense to choose a sound card which has a spdif output (some of them do, some of them don't). That way you would have the flexibility to add a spdif-compatible external dac at a later time. Regards, -- Al __________________ "I didn't say I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear." -- George Romney, in 1968, while campaigning for the Republican nomination for President of the United States. Last edited by ctal; 06-17-2009 at 09:54 AM..
(Offline)

06-17-2009, 01:43 PM	#3
plainman007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 377	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Hi, Nice to hear from you Ctal ! Thanks for your inputs. I dont think i can go the DAC route. I would be happy getting CD player quality. Mostly the sound output will go into a sound mixer and then into stage amplification systems such as crown amplifiers and such other equipment which will drive stage/auditorium speakers. I think i can go for the sound card option as its more affordable and makes sense if it breaks down. I have lost my faith in expensive electronics Ctal. They seem to break down every now and then. And most of these things are unserviceable in my country. It costs a huge amount to fedex the equipment to and fro to the USA and then pay 50% of the equipment cost as repair cost. I doubt DAC's may even be available in my city. So i think ill pickup a sound card. I need to pick up a card which will just do excellent 2 channel audio. Are there cards that will just do stereo as i dont need 5.1 etc. I think if i go the SPDIF route then id have to go with a DAC right ? Warm Regards....
(Offline)

06-17-2009, 01:56 PM	#4
ctal Eschews Obfuscation Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 1,903	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Most sound cards these days have multi-channel capability, but you can easily set them in the software for two-channel output. SPDIF is digital, so you would need a dac to use it, but I suggested choosing a sound card which has a SPDIF output (in addition to the normal analog outputs) in case you want to add a dac later. Check out the cards at NewEgg.com, and you'll get a good idea of what is available. -- Al __________________ "I didn't say I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear." -- George Romney, in 1968, while campaigning for the Republican nomination for President of the United States.
(Offline)

06-18-2009, 08:28 AM	#5
plainman007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 377	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Hi Ctal, I spoke to the computer accessory guys and its very difficult to find a 2 channel card. All of them seem to be 5.1 cards. They have Creative Cards mainly and another brand called Intex. Theyve not even heard of M Audio etc. . Will a 5.1 card set to 2 channel output do proper justice to the 2 channel audio ? If so is it ok to go with Creative ? I also have a second question. Once a sound card is installed does the system's onboard audio get deactivated or does the sound still go thru the onboard processing and things such as microsoft sound mapping or something like that. I was hoping the sound signals go straight from the HDD to the sound card with no interferences inbetween. This is the card my dealer has ready...Creative Sound Blaster 5.1 VX Sound Card - Quality 5.1 surround audio Ive also noticed that none of the sound cards have exclusive RC (Red & White Connectors) to extract left and right channel stereo independently. All offer single pin outs stereo/center/surround/sub so stereo will again have to be taken out using a single pin to stereo cable right ? Is that ok for clear sound ? Thanks Last edited by plainman007; 06-18-2009 at 09:20 AM..
(Offline)

06-18-2009, 09:23 AM	#6
ctal Eschews Obfuscation Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 1,903	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Yes, as I mentioned most sound cards these days have multi-channel capability, but I'm just about certain that nothing is sacrificed by using a multi-channel card for two-channel playback, with its software set correspondingly. Creative is the leading maker of consumer-oriented sound cards. I don't think you'll go wrong with them, although I'd suggest checking the user comments at NewEgg.com on the particular card you are considering. But keep in mind that just about any piece of hardware will have some negative comments posted about it there -- the people who have problems seem to be disproportionately represented. There is no "direct path" between the hdd and the sound card, just as there is normally no direct data path between any two devices in a computer. Everything has to go through Windows, as well as a lot of hardware on the motherboard, but I don't see any downside to that. Keep in mind that some sound cards are designed for PCI-e slots, and some for PCI slots, and the two are not compatible. So see what kind of spare card slots you have on your computer, and choose the card accordingly. Once you install the card, the existing sound function will continue to be functional unless you turn it off in the bios or in the Windows device manager. It is slightly preferable to turn it off in the bios, so that Windows won't see it at all. Good luck! -- Al __________________ "I didn't say I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear." -- George Romney, in 1968, while campaigning for the Republican nomination for President of the United States.
(Offline)

06-18-2009, 10:07 AM	#7
plainman007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 377	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Thanks Ctal. Is it ok to use a cable that splits the single pin output into a seperate RC for left and right input into the mixer ? The dealer also suggested this card Creative Sound Blaster Audigy Value Sound Card - High-quality 24-bit, 7.1 audio which of these two would you recommend for my application ? The only difference seems to be that the audigy is 7.1 with 100db SN Ratio. And the Formerly mentioned product has 5.1 with 98db SN Ratio. Thanks a ton !
(Offline)

06-18-2009, 10:31 AM	#8
ctal Eschews Obfuscation Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 1,903	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Between those two, I'd go with the 7.1 card, not because of the s/n difference, but because it is somewhat newer and because it has a spdif output, in case you want to add an external dac in the future. But do check out the user comments on it at NewEgg: Customer Reviews Of Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Value SB0400 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - OEM Customer Reviews Of Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Value SB0400 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail It got a very good percentage of positive comments, but the negative comments focused on problems with the software, which are probably system dependent to some extent. You should create a drive image before doing the installation, and (at least initially) just install the necessary drivers, not any other optional software which is likely to be garbage. Inevitably with a consumer-oriented sound card you have to break out the 1/8" stereo mini-jack with a cable that adapts it to separate left and right rca (or other) connectors. There is nothing wrong with that technically, but the problem is that those jacks suck mechanically. Repeated re-insertions, or slight to moderate tugging on the cable, will cause one of the channels or the ground connection to be interrupted, at least momentarily, unless the jack grips the plug very tightly (which is often not the case). Regards, -- Al __________________ "I didn't say I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear." -- George Romney, in 1968, while campaigning for the Republican nomination for President of the United States.
(Offline)

06-18-2009, 12:31 PM	#9
plainman007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 377	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Hi, Thanks for taking the effort. I am now browsing the links you provided. Will keep you posted. Warm Regards..
(Offline)

06-18-2009, 02:37 PM	#10
plainman007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 377	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Hi, I read the reviews Ctal. I think the audigy value you have mention has '2' mentioned in it. This seems to be different from the model in my country which doesnt have the 2 in the name. Because the card discussed in your link says 192khz. Whereas the 'audigy value' mentioned in the site Creative Labs : Home Page - The leader in Digital Entertainment for your PC and the Internet etc mentioned on 24bit/96khz and not 192khz. Ill anyway try to get one of these . Thanks
(Offline)

06-18-2009, 02:50 PM	#11
ctal Eschews Obfuscation Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 1,903	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Hmm, yes I hadn't noticed that. But NewEgg doesn't have any listings for the non-"2" version, and in fact lists the "2" as discontinued. But I looked at the Creative site you linked to, and I don't see any differences which would be significant for your purposes. And I would treat the cautionary comments some users made about software installation for the 2 version as likely to be entirely relevant! In other words, image your drive beforehand, and install as little of the software as possible, at least at first. Good luck! -- Al __________________ "I didn't say I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear." -- George Romney, in 1968, while campaigning for the Republican nomination for President of the United States.
(Offline)

06-20-2009, 07:02 PM	#12
plainman007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 377	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Hi Ctal,, Ive got and installed the card. I got a sound blaster 5.1 card. The delaer ripped me off and promised me an Audigy and he packed a Sound Blaster 5.1 not even 5.1 VX. WHats the difference between the VX and the normal 5.1 card i really dont know. I went to the site but the comparision chart shows nothing for the 5.1 card but shows 24bit/96Khz audio quality for the 5.1vx. But the former shows nothing on its specs panel. As if it has no special features. Which in this case im willing to believe. I however fit the card in and it sounds like crap. I listened to it on a pair of headphones. Carefully calibrated (there is just 1 simple mixer and no fancy software that came with it) over an hour and it sounds flat but clear. No punch to the sound however. Raise the volume and it jars. The intel audio studio sigmatel onboard sound was a lot better . At least on headphones it was, . Maybe this is 'unadulterated' sound and needs to go into the professional amp and mixer that i have. That might sound better ??. But if you think he gave me a no good card then i think ill ask him to replace it. Thanks.... Last edited by plainman007; 06-21-2009 at 02:11 AM..
(Offline)

06-21-2009, 08:48 AM	#13
ctal Eschews Obfuscation Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 1,903	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Assuming that you plugged the headphones into the green jack, was there a setting in the software to specify headphones for the green jack, as opposed to the green jack providing a line-level output to powered speakers? If that were set wrong, or if software was not installed which allowed that kind of setting, you could be driving the presumably low impedance headphones with a high impedance line-level output circuit. That would produce the symptoms you described. And if that's the case then going into your line-level professional stuff would indeed provide much better results, not because it "adulterates" the sound, but because it would present a higher impedance (less of a load) to the sound-card than the headphones do. That's about all I can think of at this point. Regards, -- Al __________________ "I didn't say I didn't say it. I said that I didn't say that I said it. I want to make that very clear." -- George Romney, in 1968, while campaigning for the Republican nomination for President of the United States.
(Offline)

06-21-2009, 11:57 AM	#14
plainman007 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 377	Re: How to get best audio playback from a PC ? Ctal Hi,, I just got my card replaced for another card Creative Soundblaster 5.1 VX this is the card that mentions 24bit/96khz sound. I plugged it in. Installed the neccesary elements except their own media organizing and playback software to avoid installing unneccesary stuff. The sound definitely is better in depth. But the volume is incredibly low. Ive got the wav and main volume sliders at full and i can just about hear the music etc that plays. I dont see anything in bios to deactivate the system sound drivers. I manually from device manager deactvated the sigmatel onboard sound. Then i deleted the intel audio studio element from the control panel along with the intel high definition audio element. Still the sound is extremely low. Should i reinstall windows ?
(Offline)

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