Absolutely stumpted - ready to ditch OS

[JonP]

I've been tearing my hair out for 3 weeks trying to solve this problem, but I'm starting to come to the conclusion the only solution is to ditch Windows ME and upgrade to Windows 2000 or XP.

The problem machine is a Via KT133A based Athlon XP 1800+ with Geforce ti 4200 and 256Mb RAM that runs Windows ME. It also has a Hercules Fortissimo III soundcard. All the drivers are the latest available. I recently got ADSL broadband and that is when I started noticing the problems I am about to describe. The machine is mainly used for Internet browsing and spreadsheet / word processing. I also do some VB development on it. As far as the Internet is concerned, I now watch a fair bit of multimedia stuff (using both Windows Media player and RealPlayer) and listen to music tracks - something I never bothered about with my old dial up account.

The problems are as follows. After starting the machine or after a re-start, everything runs fine. Wonderfully in fact. I can surf the net without any problems whatsoever and do everything I want - listen with perfect clarity to audio tracks - watch videos - anything. It all works perfectly fine. FOR A WHILE. The problem is that after about an hour or so, everything starts to go pear shaped. The computer starts to become unresponsive to my command inputs and the sound starts getting pops and dropouts. Things get worse as the session goes on, to the point where listening to multimedia stuff becomes next to impossible. The more the session wears on, the less responsive the machine becomes to my mouse clicks. For example, I will click on any icon (doesn't matter where) and there might be up to a 2 second pause before the machine acknowledges my mouse click. This, together with the badly corrupted sound gives me no choice but to re-start the machine. As soon as I re-start the machine, everything is fine once again. Then the cycle just continue. Smooth sailing for a little while and then the problems start again and progessively worsen.

Here are just some of the things I've done to try and resolve the problem:

1. Play around with drivers for all the components and peripherals (including chipset).

2. Tried various versions of OS components, ie Directx, Media Player, Internet Explorer etc.

3. Tried another browser instead of Internet Explorer.

4. Went to Windows Update and downloaded every single Windows ME update available.

5. Tried removing cards and changing card slots.

6. Tried onboard sound instead of the Hercules sound card.

7. Got rid of all unessesential startup items.

8. Cleared out as much Windows "clutter" as possible (ie made the interface as simple as possible, cleared the desktop of icons, disabled Syste, Restore).

9. Started to monitor system resources via the Resource Monitor applet (although the system does not actually run out of resources, it does seem that if they drop below 50%, the problems start to occur. Then, even if I shut things down to increase the resources, the problem still remains once it has already started).

10. Tried uninstalling unessential programs and defragging the hard drive.

11. Double checked for IRQ conflicts, etc.

12. Checked physical and virtual memory usage.

13. Fiddled around with BIOS - ie disabled all non-essential functions, posts, etc.

14. Tried the various published system.ini tweaks (ie for cache settings, swapfile, etc).

15. Oh, and of course numerous fresh Windows ME installs - 3 over the last two weeks infact.

I've probably tried other things as well, they just don't come immediately to mind at the moment. The bottom line is that everything I have tried has made absolutely zero difference. The problem remains no matter what I try. It seesm the only way to avoid it is to frequently re-start the machine and never have more than three apps open at a time.

Based on my attempts to resolve the problem, I can really only see that one of two things is causing the problem. The first could be the USB ADSL modem (it actually runs off a Belkin USB card with an Opti chip rather than the onboard Via USB). I realise the USB modem will use CPU cycles as opposed to a router, that's why I have a suspicion about it. However, there are two things that make me feel the modem is not the problem. Firstly, if I disconnect from the Internet and disconnect the modem, I still have the problems - both with the unresponsive computer and popping / clipped sound. Again, the only solution is a re-boot. The second reason is that if the modem was the problem, I would have thought I would experience the problems right way - not an hour or more after a re-start.

So that leaves the OS. My thinking is that the memory and resource management of Windows 9x is causing my problem. The key here being that a re-boot solves the problem 100% of the time, and that te machine always runs perfectly fine for a certain amount of time after a re-boot. Additionally, I have never experienced the issue it all three resources are above 50% and never drop below 50%. the problem is, I simply can't do what I need to do in order to keep the resources this high. It represents a major compromise in the way I would like to use my machine.

Anyway, before I break open the wallet and spend major $ on an OS upgrade, if anyone can think of anything obvious that I have missed, please let me know.

Thanks

[Cogar]

Well, your troubleshooting efforts have certainly been thorough. Although the problem may be Windows Me, I have a KT133-based computer that runs just fine with Windows Me and always has. (It was the OS I originally installed, and my wife still uses that computer almost daily--sometimes hours at a time--and she throws everything at it.) It is possible some hardware component like your power supply or the motherboard is starting to fail after it is on for a while and some component overheats. You might also check your HSF. Maybe it is slowing down and causing your processor to overheat, which is corrected with a restart. (These are guesses.) Good luck in any case.

[JonP]

Hi Cogar,

Thanks a lot for the reply. I wil take definitely take onboard your power supply suggestion. I have actually noticed that a stock Fortissimo III soundcard gets pretty hot. I have a heatsink on order to resolve this problem. When I open up the machine, I will actually replace the power supply with a brand new 300 watt backup I have (the existing power supply is 4 years old - as is the housing).

Could a power supply issue really create these symptoms? I had thought when it came to power something would either work properly or simply not work at all. But the power supply defintely isn't good enough, that's for sure. When I bought my 9600XT for my gaming rig, I transfered the Geforce Ti 4200 into this machine without upgrading the power supply.

So are you on broadband? Can your machine stay up for long periods downloading streaming multimedia without any problems? Are you using a router or modem?


btw, I should add that apart from this one issue, I am more than happy with Windows ME. It does everything I ask, has allthe functionaility I require and at least it never falls over.

[Endaar]

Considering this just started when you had the DSL modem installed, I'd suspect the USB driver for the modem is faulty. If the driver has a memory leak, it would cause exactly the symptoms you describe.

Try disconnecting the modem and stress-testing the computer with something like Prime95 or 3dMark. If the computer passes the stress test, that should essentially rule out a heat and/or power supply problem.

Endaar

[JonP]

Hi Endaar,

Fortunately (or unfortunately) the machine is fine with those sorts of tests. I ran both the tests you mentioned on full overnight runs (as well as memtest) just last week after my latest install. Nevertheless, I just changed the power supply about an hour ago, as it was 4 years old and has probably seen better days.

I'm not dismissing the modem as an issue yet. I did try a couple of other sets of drivers for it, but same result. I don't have a router to test unfortunately.

I have a mind to temporarily borrow an Win XP CD (this I do have access to) just to see if I can replicate this problem on an NT based OS. At least the problem is easily reproducible If I can't reproduce it, then I think my money is better spent on the new OS. If I can reproduce the problem, then the blame would have to fall squarely on the USB modem.

btw, the power supply change made no difference, but at least that can be eliminated from the list of suspects now

[blt_abx]

Originally posted by Endaar
Considering this just started when you had the DSL modem installed, I'd suspect the USB driver for the modem is faulty. If the driver has a memory leak, it would cause exactly the symptoms you describe.

I agree. I would suspect the modem, the Belkin USB card, or the drivers of these devices.

If it's possible, try connecting the modem to your machine using an NIC to eliminate the USB connection.

Was the modem and Belkin card provided by your ISP?
If so, have you contacted them?

[JonP]

I've had the Belkin USB card for a couple of years now. I have never noticed any problems with it. I originally got it because the onboard Via USB was not compatible with my HP All-in-one.

That said, I will try re-activating the onboard USB and using the modem through that (the HP all-in-one will still need to go through the Belkin card). Also, Belkin don't provide drivers for the card - they just use the standard OS USB components.

I bought the modem from a retail store. I contacted the manufacturer's support (Netcomm) but haven't gotten a reply. I am aware of one other user who had a very similar problem (using the same modem) and they resolved the issue by upgrading to XP. The ISP just got back to me now and believes the issue is related to Windows 9x resource management model (meaning the issue would go away with Win 2000 or XP).

[BlendNo27]

Another suggestion is to look for spyware. some of these spyware will just use 100% CPU utilization and bring a pc to its knees. Spybot or Adaware are 2 programs you can use to look for spyware, although I don't see it being a problem with a fresh OS install. Good Luck.

[blt_abx]

I wouldn't bother reactivating the on-board USB.

Based on the reply from your ISP, sounds as if the modem or it's drivers are not compatible with a Windows 9X system.

Depending on the reply from the modem manufactor (assuming you get a reply), it would seem to me that your options are either to upgrade from WinME or try a different modem.

Good luck with a solution!

[rodtoo40]

my sister in law has the same problem but she is using an ethernetcard the sound goes to crap and the mouse too she is behind a router as her husband the board she is using is cheap ecs and a AMD xp2000+ cpu the board is one of the duel ones can use either ddr or sdram using drr right now one stick 256 megs they have had to reload this thing at lest 7 or 8 times so far and its running windows me also any and all help need to get this fixed if you need more to go on i will get it for you

[Endaar]

I am aware of one other user who had a very similar problem (using the same modem) and they resolved the issue by upgrading to XP. The ISP just got back to me now and believes the issue is related to Windows 9x resource management model (meaning the issue would go away with Win 2000 or XP).

No doubt 2k and XP are a lot better than 98/Me when it comes to handling resources. But in switching to XP, you would also be switching drivers, so it could very easily be a case of their XP drivers not being plagued by the same bugs as their 98/Me ones.

Does the DSL modem offer the option of connecting with Ethernet? If so, it might be worth picking up a cheap 10/100 NIC and going that route instead of upgrading the OS.

Endaar

[theonlybabyface]

XP rocks!!!

Windows ME is a disease.....

[JonP]

Thanks for all the continuing help everyone. I really appreciate it

Well I did try using the onboard Via USB, but it suffers from exactly the same problem that my printer does (did). The device simply loses communication with the USB port after a very short time. So it's back to the Belkin USB card. I've never been a fan of onboard Via USB.

Unfortunately this modem doesn't have the ethernet option. I now wish it did, because that could be the next thing I try - although I still feel that if there was some sort of inherent hardware or driver issue, it would result on a more pronounced problem that would make itself evident soon after start up - not after an hour or so of constant downloading.

Bad drivers - yes, perhaps, although the machine functions fine, for example at 30% resources with 10 apps opened and the swapfile being used, but then it will also fall apart when I've closed everything down except IE and the resources are back up in the 70's (admittedly not nearly as high as the 89% after a re-start though).

I think rodtoo40 has made an important point. He's mentioned his sister-in-law has these symptoms and she runs off ethernet. The common denominator in the three situations I now know about is starting to look like the OS.

I did notice when I went to re-activate the onchip USB that "PCI dynamic bursting" was disabled. I've enabled that (for the first time actually). Here's hoping...or clutching at straws.

OK, well I know Bill Gates might not like this, but I' thinking of driving 60 kilometres to Mum's house tonight and borrowing her XP CD for a couple of days. I know this might be frowned upon, but I'd much rather do this than pay up for the OS first and then find it was something completely unrelated.

As for the cost of fixing this:

1. New router : around $250
2. Windows XP: $175
3. Windows 2000: $275

That's without the obligatory hardware to accompany my OEM purchase, but I want to get another Raptor anyway so I can play with RAID on my main rig.

[rodtoo40]

could it be windows me holds the dlls in memory using it up ??? just a thought

[JonP]

Originally posted by theonlybabyface
XP rocks!!!

Windows ME is a disease.....

Yes, I know XP rocks. I just built Mum a brand new computer with it and I was very impressed indeed with XP. It feels like it has the solidity of a tank.