Linux build?

[proFeign]

I'm taking a C programming class and I'm learning the command line stuff for navigating Linux and whatnot.

My dad is giving me an old PIII-500 with decent componentry.

I'd like to install Fedora 2 (this is what my prof recommends), any advice for someone totally new to linux? I've had jobs as NT admin and such before; so I'm a 'power user.'

Thanks!

proFeign

[wallijonn]

If you have a high speed cable modem you can download quite a few different distros and see how you like them.

http://distrowatch.com/
http://www.linuxcd.org/

Fedora Core 2 may have problems with your old Legacy peripherals as they have relegated 3Com905TX NICs to Legacy, so you'll have to do a google search for a method to get it to work. Kernel 2.6 is really for all the newer stuff like nVidia dual NIC boards, wireless, USB, SATA, etc.

Ubuntu is a Debian based GNOME like Fedora but it may not have as extensive gtk and gcc libraries. Debian is another good prospect, but for sheer 'must learn it or else' brute force Gentoo is probably unsurpassed. But Yoper is much quicker than Gentoo although it is KDE based.

If you really want to learn a distro which uses CLI then Slackware 10 may be right up your alley. It will be the last distro that supports GNOME as Slackware will only support KDE from the next release on.

Likewise, SUSE contains both KDE and GNOME, although it is mainly a KDE based OS.

So, yes, Fedora will force you to do certain things via CLI, SUSE much less so, but nowhere near as much as Slackware will. Ubuntu uses a lot of 'sudo' privs instead of having you 'su' all the time.

Fedora is great because of Evolution and because it is Enterprise based. There is no support other than the usuall forums, etc. But one usually pays for support - so no biggie.

Along the lines of Red Hat, there is http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/ and Blue Jacket RHEL.

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[proFeign]

Originally Posted by wallijonn

If you have a high speed cable modem you can download quite a few different distros and see how you like them.

http://distrowatch.com/
http://www.linuxcd.org/

Fedora Core 2 may have problems with your old Legacy peripherals as they have relegated 3Com905TX NICs to Legacy, so you'll have to do a google search for a method to get it to work. Kernel 2.6 is really for all the newer stuff like nVidia dual NIC boards, wireless, USB, SATA, etc.

Ubuntu is a Debian based GNOME like Fedora but it may not have as extensive gtk and gcc libraries. Debian is another good prospect, but for sheer 'must learn it or else' brute force Gentoo is probably unsurpassed. But Yoper is much quicker than Gentoo although it is KDE based.

If you really want to learn a distro which uses CLI then Slackware 10 may be right up your alley. It will be the last distro that supports GNOME as Slackware will only support KDE from the next release on.

Likewise, SUSE contains both KDE and GNOME, although it is mainly a KDE based OS.

So, yes, Fedora will force you to do certain things via CLI, SUSE much less so, but nowhere near as much as Slackware will. Ubuntu uses a lot of 'sudo' privs instead of having you 'su' all the time.

Fedora is great because of Evolution and because it is Enterprise based. There is no support other than the usuall forums, etc. But one usually pays for support - so no biggie.

Thanks a lot! I don't know that I understand all of what you said, but given SUSE and Gentoo and Fedora2 as my options, given that the machine is probably equipped with an old TNT video card and a Linksys (probably) NIC, probably an 815 chipset, what would you pick, were you totally ignorant of most of the CLI commands? A GUI is all well and good, but a mix of forcing me to learn CLI stuff, and giving me a good cross section of GUI knowledge and experience (I've never used a Linux GUI) would be a good mix.

I'd like to avoid the issue of unsupported hardware as much as possible I don't expect a completely problem-free install, of course, but it would probably be most problematic if I got it all installed and found out there's no support for my NIC, vid card, whatever. I obviously won't be gaming on it or anything, it's just a play box to help me learn.

Thanks again for all the info; after I learn linux some more I'll probably understand much more of what you wrote...

proF

[wallijonn]

what would you pick, were you totally ignorant of most of the CLI commands?

Believe it or not I would do a ftp Debian install.

I cut my teeth on Debian and my Matox G400Max video card. But I've messed around with a lot of other distros, like FreeBSD, Mandrake, SUSE, Red Hat, Fedora, Slackware, Gentoo, Immunix, IPCop.

The problem with SUSE is that you have to issue commands like SaX2 and YAST2 to make it do everything semi-automatically. I loved Red Hat 9 and it's update utility. Debian's apt-get is fantastic as is Gentoo's download facility.

The easiest thing for you to do is download Live CDs, like Gnoppix (GNOME) and Knoppix (KDE), SUSE Live, etc., insert them into your machine and let it do its thing. You should be able to easily ascertain if you can get into the internet and hear sound, etc.

Red Hat for Enterprise (Fedora) is great because it is geared to the Corporate world, and because there are certifications available for it, so it will always be in demand. As such you can't go wrong with learning their CLI and utilities, etc.

You can get used books wth RH9, books from the library, etc.

Don't look at it as unsurmountable problems, look at it as a learning experience. When you started using Windows you had a learning curve, no? It's the same thing.

You could mount / eject with a Mac or right click a drive letter under Windows. With SUSE you right click the desktop device and 'eject'. Under Red Hat and Fedora you will do a mount and umount. If you do not set up the user account "correctly" you will have to do a 'su' and give an Admin password. You will then have to issue 'umount' commands to unmount a device, like a floppy or a CD or DVD.

With Slackware you will actually have to give it a 'StartX' command to start the GUI after you login at the CLI. After you get tired of doing that you will learn how to set it up so that it boots right into the GUI and awaits a GUI username and password. Slackware, though, will force you to learn a more basic Linux, one where you will really get to know the internals of the OS. If you want a Linux that looks a lot like WXP's login screen you will probably like Mandrake. Slackware, like FreeBSD, will also force you to manually partition the disk, learn to select the swap space, write disk tables out, etc. SUSE, Fedora, Mandrake, et. al. will usually do it from the GUI script, like Windows.

With Slackware you'll wonder why it doesn't automatically power down when you tell it to shutdown (like W95) and wonder why you didn't go with SUSE, Mandrake, Gentoo, Fedora, etc. Again, it will be a learning experience. You'll see the differences with downloading and installing .rpms, which is always a good thing. http://www.rpm.org/

May I suggest you start here: http://www.mozillaquest.com/indexes/...ows_index.html

Besides the NIC and sound, the mouse and video usually present the greatest amount of problems. XWindows may present a real challenge; I mean a pull your hair out, swear like a sailor and kick the cat experience. But if you perservere you will learn that you have to learn editors in the CLI, and once you have mastered XFree86 and X11R6 you'll be surprised how little intimidates you in Linux. It would be like configuring a video card through the registry on a Windows machine. People will be impressed.

Go to the library, get a few books, and get excited about learning something new. Don't get discouraged. Join a few Linux forums and make new friends. Before you know it you'll be a Linux power user, recompiling will be second nature and dependencies won't phase you.

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[wallijonn]

********** http://www.linuxcommand.org/ **********

http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/topic-1154.html

http://www.linuxforums.org/


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[proFeign]

Thanks guys! Lots of support from the linux users here. I never knew. It's all greek to me thus far like GNOME as opposed to KDE (I have no idea which is more appropriate for me).

I'll just put it like this, and I really do appreciate all the input,

Given what you know, can you pick a single *free* linux distro you think I'd be happy with? I know I can always change, but essentially all of what has been said here is like asking a mac user to pick a motherboard from what's currently on the market. Just as most people wouldn't know which chipset best fits their needs (since they all do much of the same thing, but in different ways) they'd be a deer in the headlights with all this information (like me )

Thanks!

[wallijonn]

Get Mandrake.

But your professor did tell you to get Fedora. It's your call.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUSE 9.1 - it has KDE and GNOME, it should install & update easily; easy to use
Screenshots: http://www.suse.com/en/company/press...91/pers_en.png

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
KDE Screenshots: http://www.kde.org/screenshots/kde330shots.php
GNOME Screenshots: http://www.gnome.org/start/2.0/screenshots/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

KNOPPIX - LIVE CD - KDE - Debian based bootable CD OS; no need to install
Screenshots: http://www.phpmp.com/photos/knoppix34

GNOPPIX - LIVE CD - GNOME - Debian based bootable CD OS; no need to install
Screenshots: http://www.gnoppix.org/pages/screenshots/index.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fedora - Red Hat Enterprise - GNOME Xmian Evolution based; easy install; easy to use

Fedora Screenshots & Reviews:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4660
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5057
http://www.dark-hill.co.uk/fedora/index1.html

Slackware - It has KDE & GNOME - Debian based - DOS GUI; For the Power User
Screenshots & Review: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7694

Gentoo - KDE based; hardest to configure; for the Ultra Power user
Screenshots: http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/shots.xml

Debian Screenshots: http://people.debian.org/~madduck/d-i/screenshots/

Mandrake Screenshots: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/fscreenshots.php3

Xandros Screenshots: http://osdir.com/shots/slideshows/sl...se=137&slide=1


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[Lucas_Maximus]

why not install fedora and slackware.

all linux's are virtually the same under the skin.

fedora will run very slowly on ur box depending on the amount of memory, slackware will run faster, debian will run faster to.

[barureddy]

Since you are not running on a new computer, I would not recommend fedora. Personally since you are learning the command line at the same time and I'm assuming you want a fast and light system, I would recommend something like debian, gentoo, or slackware (I have not tried this myself). These distros are light and in the case of gentoo and slackware, can be optmized (code compiled for you system specifically) for your system very easily.

Granted something like gentoo has a very steep learning curve, but if you search the forums over the last year, you will see several people installing gentoo from scratch with some problems but in the end, with a sucessful system. It is worth the try, espically since the worst that can happen is that you learn more about the command line.

P.S. we are always here to help you with whatever choice you choose.

[wallijonn]

Originally Posted by Lucas_Maximus

all linux's are virtually the same under the skin.

All cars are the same under the skin too.

But, seriously, the first 'hurtle' is auto device detection. The newer the distro the more likely that your devices will be detected (like sound, nic, video, mouse, usb, sata, etc).

next will be the installer interface. I have no problems with DOS based GUIs but others may like Windows based DUIs. Installing FreeBSD may be intimidating, while the new Debian installer is much easier.

next comes the GUI selection: KDE and GNOME are not the only GUIs available. Here's a screenshot of XFCE: http://xwinman.org/screenshots/xfce-default.jpg Here's a screenshot of CDE: http://xwinman.org/screenshots/dtwm.gif

next will be how the system is updated. Is it Windows based like Fedora, Mandrake and SUSE? Or is it Debian based like 'apt-get' and 'apt-upgrade'? Gentoo has a merge type command.

Then there are the things you can do with themes, like transparencies, tearing, having your mouse go over a window automatically brings it to the top / forward / focus, the ease of mounting and umounting devices, burning a CD or DVD, playing a .mp3, or uning a Windows based game like DoomIII or an app. like MSWord under XWine (Cadega).

You can find a list of X-Window managers here: http://xwinman.org/

Then's there are all those little extar eye candies you can add to spruce up the desktop. http://www.kde-look.org/

You have to admit that this looks cool: http://www.kde-look.org/content/prev...name=Tara+Tara...

As far as I'm concerned the only "skin" to have in KDE is SuperKaramba.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/e_augustinus/schermafdruk2.png

check this out: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7417

I'm waiting for GNOME to port it over. Until then GNOME will have to do what Ubuntu is doing - going with GNOME 2.8 & gDesklets. http://www.pycage.de/software_gdesklets.html




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[proFeign]

I like Gentoo now that I'm looking around on the web. The steeper learning curve would be fun, probably. I like the way it looks. Also I like the supercaramba skin. Awesome. Is gentoo KDE?

[wallijonn]

Originally Posted by proFeign

I like Gentoo ... The steeper learning curve would be fun, probably.

So, you think having your computer compile a kernel for 24 hours is fun? Not me. As it is, Gentoo is pretty similar to SuperKaramba.

yes, Genoot is KDE, and GNOME, and xcfe, and IceWM, and Fluxbox, and Enlightenment, and ...

What, no comments on the Tara Reid desktop?

Don't think that installing SuperKaramba is a walk in the park - you have to pay your dues... http://www.superkaramba.com/faq.html

Just stick to the basic Gentoo desktop theme.

[Lucas_Maximus]

Gentoo isn't significantly faster than say slack or debian, arch you can look at but that is mega hardcore, you have to be hardcore with it, excellent package manager though.

Slackware has the easiest install, if you know about linux partitioning etc.

installing any flavour of linux i suggest you read up about partitioning and how linux handles partitions. will help with an install of any linux to understand what the installer is doing.

[proFeign]

Originally Posted by wallijonn

So, you think having your computer compile a kernel for 24 hours is fun? Not me. As it is, Gentoo is pretty similar to SuperKaramba.

yes, Genoot is KDE, and GNOME, and xcfe, and IceWM, and Fluxbox, and Enlightenment, and ...

What, no comments on the Tara Reid desktop?

Don't think that installing SuperKaramba is a walk in the park - you have to pay your dues... http://www.superkaramba.com/faq.html

Just stick to the basic Gentoo desktop theme.

Okey doke. Gentoo is maybe not the best idea for this box, given it's computational power. I'll look into slackware. I'll be posting tons more when I actually get my hands on this box. I'll probably try Gentoo for fun because I downloaded an iso of a live CD for it. Might as well see what happens, and I'm busy with engineering classwork most all day during the week anyway (except on lucky days).

I'm looking into Slackware...

[barureddy]

Gentoo does have precompiled binaries that you can download off the web and put on cd. They even have a p3 optimized version. This only leaves you to compile the kernel, which only takes about 10-20 minutes depending on how you configure it. It still will take time and there will still be a steep learning curve, but there are options so you don't have to spend days waiting for things to compile.