Security Nightmare

[Splinter]

:newbie: Hi All, Hoping you maybe able to provide a little help.

My old XP PC finally crashed out this week, or at least the processor did. Well I had it for five years and it had been running continously with the odd stop for maintenance. Rather than look around for a cheap processor I thought I treat myself to a new system and as my old HDD was good I put that in too, as I couldn't backup any files on the old PC.

My new system runs with Vista as the OS and here my problems began. Vista won't let me access any of the word or excel files on the old drive as the admin and user accounts don't have matching security settings.

Here's what I've tried to do about it:

1. switched off the UAC in a variety of different ways - makes no difference, so switched on again.

2. Tried to change the security settings of each folder, e.g. took ownership of each folder and changed the permissions level to full control - that only allowed me to copy the folder but not the contents - even sub folders and files were supposed to change with that.

3. Tried to move and copy folders - no joy

It seems that the only answer is to change the security settings on each file individually - which does work, but is long and laborious and I've got hundreds.

I was using MS office 2003, this pc came with office 2008, but I don't think that caused a problem, I'm sure it is Vista's security system that is my problem, my document files had no security settings before and operated on any XP system that I used.

Any help would be appreciated

[CrowdAds]

[felix8406]

I don't think the issue is with Vista, but rather with your other OS, which I'm assuming it's Win XP. Question, does the older hard drive has Win XP installed? If the answer is yes, you may want to try a dual boot, assuming you have the Win XP disk. Here's how:

1. Boot from the the Windows XP CD
2. On the Welcome to Setup wizard page that appears:

To Setup Windows XP now, press ENTER > Select the Recovery Console by press R > Press ENTER to set up Windows > Press F8 to accept the license agreement > Select the installation of Windows XP that you want to repair and then press R > Follow the instructions to repair Windows XP.

One minor issue; after you do the step above, your computer may not be able to access Vista. That can be easily correct, but you need the Vista DVD. If you don't have one, send me a PM.

Basically, you boot from the DVD and run Startup Repair and you'll be able to boot to both OS. Again, I'm assuming you have Win XP installed on your older drive. If that's not the case, let me know.

[Splinter]

Thanks Felix, I agree I could have a dual booting system which would work, but surely I should be able to open an MS word document on any MS OS?

Or are you saying that because the old bootable drive contains Win XP it won't allow me to do that?

The error messages say: "word cannot open the document, user does not have access priviliges" and then e.g. "F://Domestic/Car/repair.doc"

This makes no difference whether I'm signed on as Admin or user.

[felix8406]

My thought is that because Win XP is a different PC (as far as the OS's are concern) you cannot and should not be allowed to access the files. The reasoning behind that is that if that was the case, anyone could get access of someone's files too easily by simply accessing their disks. That's my opinion of course.

Having said that, I'm dual-booting Vista and XP. From the XP side, I can access any documents from the Vista drive, but not vice-versa.

[Splinter]

Sort of confirms my thoughts, probably will have to dual boot.

Going to try a backup and see what happens - but not now, must get sleep.

Thanks for your help.

Goodnight from a very wet, cold and windy Southampton.

[Znod]

How about deleting the standard user account(s) you have set up and starting over with them. Alternatively, you could simply log on and run as administrator. Some say there is a problem doing do, but I think that if one's AV/Malware protection is good, then doing so is no big deal. I always run as administrator on all my computers. Basically, I don't like fooling with user accounts.

I don't understand totally where felix is coming from, but I agree that the problem is an unusual one for Vista. Indeed, I've never heard mention of your problem before. How about copying some of your files to the Vista drive using a flash drive and seeing if they work from the Vista drive.

Finally, are you aware that some older files cannot be opened using Office 2003 (and perhaps Office 2007) if SP3 has been installed on Office 2003--without a fix from MS. Did you install SP3?

[airman]

I build a new system for my brother -in-law and he did basically the same thing he transfered his old XP install drive to the new system and had the same problem and he did the same thing by taking control of the file and transfered that way but after a while, and why we do not no, or what he may of did, now he had total access to all the files and does not have to do the security thing to transfer the files. He said that Vista did a learning thing but i am not that sure of this fact. Good Luck I have did the same move in the past and not had the security problem. One other thing it was a Vista Ultimate install and he was using a full administrator .

[felix8406]

Originally Posted by Znod

I don't understand totally where felix is coming from...

I really don't know what the security issue is, but I was basing my opinion in this: Let's supposed that there's only one OS installed and two or more users use the PC through their own respective desktop. Should each user be allowed to access each others files without some type of permission? My answer would be no. In this case, there are two different OS's installed, but the there should still be the same level of security. If User XP did not grant User Vista permission to access the files, then User Vista should not be allowed to freely or legally access those files.

But again, I don't really know what the issue is. I recommended dual-booting because the XP is already installed on the older HD and from there he can either copy the files or share the folders. Plus if something happens to Vista, he'll still have access to XP.

[Znod]

I see. When I was dual booting, I could access the files on my XP installation from my Vista installation and vice versa. Since his XP is not even bootable, I would guess that there would be even fewer access restrictions than in dual booting. I would think that the XP drive would be nothing more than storage.

[felix8406]

Not necessarily. Sure he hasn't boot to XP, but file security will still be embedded. Win XP SP2 treats "My Documents" folders different than any other folders, so there's a possibility that whatever security XP applied to that folder might still be active. (Sounds a little like science fiction)

[Znod]

Originally Posted by felix8406

One minor issue; after you do the step above, your computer may not be able to access Vista. That can be easily correct, but you need the Vista DVD. If you don't have one, send me a PM.

Basically, you boot from the DVD and run Startup Repair and you'll be able to boot to both OS. Again, I'm assuming you have Win XP installed on your older drive. If that's not the case, let me know.

felix, have you done the Vista startup-repair thing before to get a dual boot with XP installed, in effect, second working? I though that he would have reinstall Vista again from DVD--which he might not want to do. But, what you are saying is a lot easier than what we used to say.

An alternative would be for him to "unplug" his vista drive and repair XP as you suggest; plug the Vista drive back in afterwards, and boot from the boot loader.

[felix8406]

To be honest, I can't remember whether it worked or not. When I began building my PC a few months ago I was confronted with this issue. I remember inserting the Vista DVD and running Startup Repair, but the EIDE hard drive where XP was installed went bad and had to be sent for repairs. Then I couldn't get XP to install on a SATA drive and that took a few days to solve. Between those and other issues, I lost track on whether or not the Startup repair worked, though dual-booting is working fine.

Just in case, I'm including a link from Microsoft, which details the step to take: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/919529.

[Znod]

Got it; that's a good link to have. I remember when Sandi worked out a procedure, presumably similar to the MS procedure, that allowed her to get an XP installed-second dual=boot working. It took her a lot of work to figure it out.

[Splinter]

Originally Posted by Znod

An alternative would be for him to "unplug" his vista drive and repair XP as you suggest; plug the Vista drive back in afterwards, and boot from the boot loader.

I like this idea, obvious really - as long as I can access the files I can back up to DVD and then copy into relevant folders once rebooted with vista.

This should bypass the conflict between the two systems and at the very least give me a back up.

If you see an obvious flaw in this please let me know.

Many thanks

[Splinter]

Originally Posted by Znod

How about copying some of your files to the Vista drive using a flash drive and seeing if they work from the Vista drive.

Unfortunately Vista wont allow me to move, copy, backup, read or in any way access anything that is MS Office or for some strange reason my favourites, from the old drive. Anything else e.g. music, photos, artwork no problem.