Hot swapping a hd with RAID

traveler · 01-27-2003, 02:22 AM

I notice that all the RAID cards with hot swap and hot spare capabilities always mention that this feature is available only with a specific removable hd chasis.

For example, to have hot swap capability, the Promise Raid cards say to use a Promise SuperSwap 1000 chasis, and the HighPoint Raid cards say to use a RocketRAID removeable hd chasis, etc.

Is the hot swap capability a proprietary thing?

I notice that the Vantec removeable hd chasis makes no mention of it working in any unique ways with any controllers.

diceless · 01-27-2003, 04:57 PM

Its one of those areas shrouded in mystery... you have to be willing to take a chance to see if it works. I’m personally looking at the 3ware card and a 3 or 5 drive hot swap cage. The cage that 3Ware puts out is just a rebranded generic one I found on other sites, so I’m going to get that instead. If it doesn’t work, I’m out of the hotswap but at least have a fast harddrive changing and some nice looks.

Just remember, its not for making a harddrive act as removable media but for the repairs of a broken Raid 1-5 set while the system is running.

Diceless

traveler · 01-27-2003, 08:32 PM

Right you are diceless! RAID 1 is what I was eyeing here. Maybe 0+1.

I just became more knowledgeable on this subject this afternoon. I called Promise Technology tech support and had a 35 minute conversation with (lucky me) the tech-head type. I asked the question: If I want hot swap capability, must I get the matching manufacturer's hd chasis? Of course, he recommended his products but I got quite a bit of info on the subject.

First thing, for hot swap capability there can be only one hd per channel from the RAID card. If there is a master/slave set up present, the hd left behind on the channel goes south. He also said that although he (his company) can't support the set up, any chasis that has the necessary built in technology would work. I guess if one had a HighPoint RocketRaid hd chasis plugged into a Promise SX6000 6-channel full hardware support RAID card, the hot swap capability and technology would be present and work, but without the monitoring properties of the proprietary Promise array management software functions. The hd monitoring part is the proprietary part. The key technology issue is surge protection at the time of the key shut off of the power to the drive to be swapped. If the chasis protects the drive at key on and key off, then you can hot swap without the proprietary hd monitoring. If the chasis is too old or not internally surge protected, than only a cold boot would be safe when swapping drives. I don't know if my Vantec 102fd chasis has the right surge protection for hot swapping. I'll have to find out either by confirmation from Vantec or experimenting with my spare hard drives. I'm not concerned about the hd monitoring part, because the Vantec has fan, temperature, and hd monitoring built into it visable on the face plate lcd screen with audio alarms. And there's always cold boot.

Which 3ware card are you looking at? Nice lookin' drive rack.

diceless · 01-28-2003, 06:29 AM

I'm looking at either the 8500-4 (4 Channel SATA) or the 7500-4 (4 Channel ATA). I'm currently split between the two, if I get the SATA I'll have to buy adapters plus the extra cost of the card but it will have a longer life. Or stay with the ATA and the cable mess. Or since I always have two machines going, buy the 7500 and a 3 drive cage and wait for the SATA to saturate the market and buy a second card for SATA and a hotswap SATA cage and outfit the other machine with the old set. So many options and not enough money right now.

Diceless

traveler · 01-28-2003, 10:29 AM

I can relate to your dilemma. That's why I'm exploring the most inexpensive and efficient way to get the most.

If I go IDE, then I already have the drives. If I go SATA, then I have yet to get the SATA drives, and SATA drive bays, and at that point in time the price of the SATA card might come down.

Four channels are nice for a hot swappable 0+1 array.

diceless · 01-28-2003, 05:27 PM

I'm surpised I haven't seen any sata drive cages yet. With the connectors on back it will have very similar support as the U160 80 pin connector. IE, drive plugs directly into the backplane of the cage and supports hotswap from the get-go.

Diceless

traveler · 01-28-2003, 06:35 PM

The absence of SATA hd chasis has been noticeable. No vendor that I have visited yet has them. They are probably not yet made. The availability of removeable bays for IDE puts a point on the side of an IDE Raid setup.

01-27-2003, 02:22 AM	#1
traveler Where to next? Join Date: May 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 18,227	Hot swapping a hd with RAID I notice that all the RAID cards with hot swap and hot spare capabilities always mention that this feature is available only with a specific removable hd chasis. For example, to have hot swap capability, the Promise Raid cards say to use a Promise SuperSwap 1000 chasis, and the HighPoint Raid cards say to use a RocketRAID removeable hd chasis, etc. Is the hot swap capability a proprietary thing? I notice that the Vantec removeable hd chasis makes no mention of it working in any unique ways with any controllers.
(Online)

01-27-2003, 04:57 PM	#2
diceless Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 202	Its one of those areas shrouded in mystery... you have to be willing to take a chance to see if it works. I’m personally looking at the 3ware card and a 3 or 5 drive hot swap cage. The cage that 3Ware puts out is just a rebranded generic one I found on other sites, so I’m going to get that instead. If it doesn’t work, I’m out of the hotswap but at least have a fast harddrive changing and some nice looks. Just remember, its not for making a harddrive act as removable media but for the repairs of a broken Raid 1-5 set while the system is running. Diceless
(Offline)

01-27-2003, 08:32 PM	#3
traveler Where to next? Join Date: May 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 18,227	Right you are diceless! RAID 1 is what I was eyeing here. Maybe 0+1. I just became more knowledgeable on this subject this afternoon. I called Promise Technology tech support and had a 35 minute conversation with (lucky me) the tech-head type. I asked the question: If I want hot swap capability, must I get the matching manufacturer's hd chasis? Of course, he recommended his products but I got quite a bit of info on the subject. First thing, for hot swap capability there can be only one hd per channel from the RAID card. If there is a master/slave set up present, the hd left behind on the channel goes south. He also said that although he (his company) can't support the set up, any chasis that has the necessary built in technology would work. I guess if one had a HighPoint RocketRaid hd chasis plugged into a Promise SX6000 6-channel full hardware support RAID card, the hot swap capability and technology would be present and work, but without the monitoring properties of the proprietary Promise array management software functions. The hd monitoring part is the proprietary part. The key technology issue is surge protection at the time of the key shut off of the power to the drive to be swapped. If the chasis protects the drive at key on and key off, then you can hot swap without the proprietary hd monitoring. If the chasis is too old or not internally surge protected, than only a cold boot would be safe when swapping drives. I don't know if my Vantec 102fd chasis has the right surge protection for hot swapping. I'll have to find out either by confirmation from Vantec or experimenting with my spare hard drives. I'm not concerned about the hd monitoring part, because the Vantec has fan, temperature, and hd monitoring built into it visable on the face plate lcd screen with audio alarms. And there's always cold boot. Which 3ware card are you looking at? Nice lookin' drive rack.
(Online)

01-28-2003, 06:29 AM	#4
diceless Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 202	I'm looking at either the 8500-4 (4 Channel SATA) or the 7500-4 (4 Channel ATA). I'm currently split between the two, if I get the SATA I'll have to buy adapters plus the extra cost of the card but it will have a longer life. Or stay with the ATA and the cable mess. Or since I always have two machines going, buy the 7500 and a 3 drive cage and wait for the SATA to saturate the market and buy a second card for SATA and a hotswap SATA cage and outfit the other machine with the old set. So many options and not enough money right now. Diceless
(Offline)

01-28-2003, 10:29 AM	#5
traveler Where to next? Join Date: May 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 18,227	I can relate to your dilemma. That's why I'm exploring the most inexpensive and efficient way to get the most. If I go IDE, then I already have the drives. If I go SATA, then I have yet to get the SATA drives, and SATA drive bays, and at that point in time the price of the SATA card might come down. Four channels are nice for a hot swappable 0+1 array.
(Online)

01-28-2003, 05:27 PM	#6
diceless Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 202	I'm surpised I haven't seen any sata drive cages yet. With the connectors on back it will have very similar support as the U160 80 pin connector. IE, drive plugs directly into the backplane of the cage and supports hotswap from the get-go. Diceless
(Offline)

01-28-2003, 06:35 PM	#7
traveler Where to next? Join Date: May 2001 Location: South Florida Posts: 18,227	The absence of SATA hd chasis has been noticeable. No vendor that I have visited yet has them. They are probably not yet made. The availability of removeable bays for IDE puts a point on the side of an IDE Raid setup.
(Online)

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