I miss my guns.....

[spookyload]

Originally posted by haven
a concealed is so much fun. When some one screws with you on the street, you should see their expression, when you open your coat and show that steel. Run like the wind bad guy.....

This has been a very inteligent discussion barring the above quote. That is a very dangerous attitude to have towards weapons. If someone is robbing you, they are more likely to have a weapon ready to fire, and you will never even get a shot off. In fact, they will probably take your shiny gun from your limp body after they take your wallet. I have a friend who was shot doing that exact thing in Little Rock, AR. He was at an ATM, and a guy approached him after the money came out. Bad guy was ready, my friend wanted to flex his muscle and show him the 9mm. Bad guy fired while my friend was still expecting him to run. He didn't see the gun Bad guy had.

For those of you in favor of concealed weapons, you should come to New Mexico. You can carry open weapons here. You go to the farmers market or parks, and you will see people with leg holsters walking around. Most stores and restaraunts don't allow weapons for the obvious reason, but you do see lots of them. This state also has the highes per capita rate of stolen hand guns.

[Underwater Mike]

The implication I'm reading from your last sentence is that there's a causal relationship there (sorry if I'm misunderstanding). But that's a big leap -- I can think of a number of possible explanations for a higher rate of handgun theft, none of which include openly carrying weapons. Remember the old maxim that correlation doesn't equal causation...

Originally posted by spookyload
For those of you in favor of concealed weapons, you should come to New Mexico. You can carry open weapons here. You go to the farmers market or parks, and you will see people with leg holsters walking around. Most stores and restaraunts don't allow weapons for the obvious reason, but you do see lots of them. This state also has the highes per capita rate of stolen hand guns.

[Kestral]

Originally posted by spookyload
For those of you in favor of concealed weapons, you should come to New Mexico. You can carry open weapons here.

I am from New Mexico. I actually prefer open carry to concealed carry, I have had many very pleasant conversations with police officers on the street, and the fact that I was armed was never an issue. However, even with a CCW, if someone sees it and calls the cops, then there's a huge production number until they check your permit and everything else. That's a pain in the ***. The best thing about open carry is that kind of thing never happens.

[Underwater Mike]

Kestral,

I agree with you 100% on concealed vs. open. The problem, however, is the legal definition of concealment. Dunno what you guys live with, but here in VA it's dicey. Say I carry openly on my waist in shirt and jeans. Suddenly I get cold and put on a jacket. Even if I leave the jacket open and position the holster so that the weapon is in plain view, I'm now carrying concealed.

Vehicular transport is an even bigger mess. If I have a firearm on my seat (or even my dash) in plain view and get pulled over for any reason (e.g., illegal u-turn), it's at the officer's discretion whether the gun is considered concealed -- doesn't matter if it's loaded or not. In fact, being safe on vehicular carry was the primary reason I got my permit, since I used to drive on long trips and worry about whether I was legal.


Another big issue is local culture. Around here, if I walked down the sidewalk with a plainly visible firearm, folks would flip out and I'd probably surrounded by FFX County's finest. :eek:

Having a permit for concealment is a just a good all-around CYA...

[TQ]

Originally posted by Kestral
[b]However, even with a CCW, if someone sees it and calls the cops, then there's a huge production number until they check your permit and everything else.[b]

Whereas I support open carry, I do carry (legal Texas CCL holder for seven years) concealed everyday and no one ever notices.
I carry everything from a full size Kimber 1911 to an H&K USP .40 Compact to a Taurus titanium snubby with a 2 and a half inch ported barrel. Even an S&K .357 with a four inch barrel.

As far as the fellow that was assaulted at the ATM, well, he just wasn't being alert.
I don't go anywhere without my spider sense...

[Kestral]

Originally posted by TQ
Whereas I support open carry, I do carry (legal Texas CCL holder for seven years) concealed everyday and no one ever notices.

That's great. Not everyone is so lucky.

It wasn't me, for that matter, it was a buddy of mine who carries a Beretta 92.

[shootcraps]

And you have to make sure you know ALL of the laws. A guy in Virginia was carrying openly and someone called the cops cause he was walking his dog and he was on a school property. Duh, you can't carry at all on school property. The putz got arrested.

I remember the first time I carried concealed, it was such a production! Trying to make sure my holster was on right and my coat was covering it. Went to the Home Depot and everytime someone looked at me the thought "Uh-oh, can they see it?" went through my head.

[shootcraps]

Originally posted by spookyload
For those of you in favor of concealed weapons, you should come to New Mexico. You can carry open weapons here. You go to the farmers market or parks, and you will see people with leg holsters walking around. Most stores and restaraunts don't allow weapons for the obvious reason, but you do see lots of them.

That's cool too. I read an article about someone attending a firearms class in Arizon and it was the same way. People carrying openly on the streets and in the local stores.

[TQ]

Originally posted by Kestral
That's great. Not everyone is so lucky.

It's not a matter of luck that no one has noticed that I'm carrying a firearm. It's my choice of clothing. Sometimes I wear a long photographer's vest, other times I'm carrying a very nice ballistic nylon briefcase from Dillon that has a concealed center compartment designed for a firearm. I get teased about carrying a "man purse" from time to time, but I just smile, nod my head and no one's the wiser.

[Cogar]

Originally posted by shootcraps
That's cool too. I read an article about someone attending a firearms class in Arizon and it was the same way. People carrying openly on the streets and in the local stores.

The article is correct. You only need a permit in Arizona to carry a weapon concealed. Some businesses have signs telling you to check your gun at the door. Everyone is used to it, although a relatively small percentage of the population carry their sidearms in the open. The reaction you get depends on the part of town you are in, etc.

[wayne_abx]

Originally posted by haven
a concealed is so much fun. When some one screws with you on the street, you should see their expression, when you open your coat and show that steel. Run like the wind bad guy.....

Hi Haven,

For one, that is totally the opposite, I still instruct (Hunter's Safety, Firearm Instructor for CC)

Flashing a Firearm is highly illegal regardless.

You walk away, talk your self out of trouble or avoid areas you know are trouble!!!

You don't show, draw etc... unless you your self or family is in immanent danger with no way out, PERIOD

-wayne

[wayne_abx]

Originally posted by Mike Donatello

FYI, Virginia's law is weak when it comes to reciprocity with other states (currently something like 5 or 7 agreements in place). The AG's office has never been active in creating reciprocity agreements, regardless of the party or occupant of the office. In contrast, FL has reciprocal agreements with around 20 states. And, you CAN get a nonresident concealed-carry permit in FL, although it is expensive and time consuming. I've been trying to get a copy of the application for about six months and none of my requests have been honored.

Hi Mike,

Virginia

Permits that this state honors:
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Idaho
Louisiana
Michigan
North Carolina
Oklahoma
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Washington
West Virginia

States that honor this state's permits:

Alaska
Idaho
Indiana
Kentucky
Michigan
Montana
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Utah
West Virginia

-wayne

[wayne_abx]

For New Mexico

For NR
Peaceable journey law summary:
Date updated: Monday, April 21, 2003

30-7-2 Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon

A. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon consists of; Carrying a concealed loaded firearm or any other type of deadly weapon anywhere, except in the following cases:
1. in the person’s residence or on real property belonging to him as owner, lessee, tenant, or licensee;
2. in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for lawful protection of the person’s or another’s person or property;

For R
Carrying without a permit
Date updated: Tuesday, April 22, 2003

NM is an open-carry state. A non-permit holder may carry a visible weapon.

NM does not honor other states CCL

These states do honor NM CCL

Alaska
Idaho
Indiana
Kentucky
Michigan
Montana
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Utah

-wayne

[TQ]

Say, wayne_b, could you provide a link to where you found this information?
My wife and I drive through New Mexico at least once a year and I'd like to do a bit more research on carrying firearms in-state if you're from out-of-state.

[wayne_abx]

Originally posted by TQ
Say, wayne_b, could you provide a link to where you found this information?
My wife and I drive through New Mexico at least once a year and I'd like to do a bit more research on carrying firearms in-state if you're from out-of-state.

Hi TQ,

My information is on a CD, it was given to me when I gave a class on Armed PSID certification. I will try and find out the source for ya.

-wayne