Mechanics - Question about Tires

[FB]

Still I can't help but think traction would be improved with Goodyear or Michelin tires

nah, most OEM tires are crap, the stock tires on my moms car, 2003 Impala LS are Goodyear Eagle LS's and they suck, my car is the same as here, but my BFG Traction T/A's grip like nothing i have ever driven before.

[Fraoch]

Originally Posted by FB -|-+

nah, most OEM tires are crap, the stock tires on my moms car, 2003 Impala LS are Goodyear Eagle LS's and they suck, my car is the same as here, but my BFG Traction T/A's grip like nothing i have ever driven before.

The BFG "Long Trail T/A"s were possibly factory-applied to my Santa Fe, although the dealer did some customization, including alloy wheels, so I'm not entirely sure. It was a dealer demo.

My Dad has had some big problems with BFGs and generally no problems with Goodyear and Michelin, although the Michelin X-One (discontinued) tires he got with his Honda Accord were noisy.

Yokohama and Pirelli have a good reputation as well.

Edit: OT: now that I have some experience with this vehicle, I can say that fuel economy is surprisingly good for a 3880 lb vehicle with a 2.7 L V6 - 9.5 L/100 km highway, ~12 L/100 km city, that's 25 MPG/19 MPG, which is exactly what the manufacturer states.

[FB]

Originally Posted by Fraoch

The BFG "Long Trail T/A"s were possibly factory-applied to my Santa Fe, although the dealer did some customization, including alloy wheels, so I'm not entirely sure. It was a dealer demo.

My Dad has had some big problems with BFGs and generally no problems with Goodyear and Michelin, although the Michelin X-One (discontinued) tires he got with his Honda Accord were noisy.

Yokohama and Pirelli have a good reputation as well.

i would actually question goodyears quality, but they are the only ones

[REVAN_abx]

Originally Posted by Fraoch

And filling tires with nitrogen? Sounds neat but what exactly does it accomplish? I'm sure there are benefits as nitrogen is more expensive than air. Right off the bat I can think of reduced internal oxidation. Would compressibility/thermal expansion have a role to play too?

Yes Fraoch, it's all about expansion. Nitrogen will not expand with heat as compressed air will. This is very important for racing but is a waste of money for your every day driver.

[Fraoch]

Originally Posted by REVAN

Yes Fraoch, it's all about expansion. Nitrogen will not expand with heat as compressed air will. This is very important for racing but is a waste of money for your every day driver.

Ah, I can see this then. Perhaps it would be important in the southern U.S. with very hot road surfaces and with vehicles that place high loads on tires like SUVs.

[The_Bloodguard]

Originally Posted by Fraoch

And filling tires with nitrogen? Sounds neat but what exactly does it accomplish? I'm sure there are benefits as nitrogen is more expensive than air. Right off the bat I can think of reduced internal oxidation. Would compressibility/thermal expansion have a role to play too?

I'm not sure how much of the following is true but I can tell you after working
in a gas station as a kid, our air compressor always had alot of water vapor
in the system which isn't good!
From this link

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Why Inflate with Nitrogen?

Oxygen is your tire’s worst enemy. Air is about 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other. Nitrogen is inert, non combustible, and non corrosive. Oxygen on the other hand is a destructive element. When tires are exposed to air, a long term and continuing deterioration begins - the oxidation of the rubber in the tire. What happens to a rubber band over time? It loses its elasticity and strength. This same process occurs in tires inflated with air as the oxygen attacks the rubber molecules, working from the inside out until the oxygen permeates the tire structure and ultimately the tread.

Is All Nitrogen Gas Equal?

No, nitrogen is available from nitrogen generators in different purities, generally ranging from 95% (low purity) to 99.9% (high purity).

What Purity of Nitrogen Should I Use?

All of our aging and longevity tests were with 98% or better. We strongly recommend that 98% or better be used to inflate your tires.

What Are the Other Benefits of Nitrogen Inflation?

Tires Last Longer

On the road tests show that tires inflated with nitrogen lasted 25-30% longer and that road failures were reduced by 50%.

Tires Hold Their Pressure Longer

Nitrogen diffuses thru the walls of the tire 25-30% slower than air, significantly reducing tire pressure loss between inflation checks. Under inflated tires wear faster. A tire that is 10% underinflated will lose approximately 7% of its service life.

Fewer Tire Failures

The strength of tires are affected by oxidation, heat and pressure. Tires are weakened by the oxidation process, this process is accelerated by the heat generated from rolling. This oxidation is refered to as "fatigue" and "aging". Nitrogen filled tires had twice the life to failure in both field and laboratory tests.

Better Fuel Mileage and Handling

Tires that are properly inflated roll better than underinflated tires and get better fuel mileage. Tires that are properly inflated also respond better to steering input and handle better.

Rims and Wheels Resist Rust

Nitrogen produced by our systems is completely dry and without moisture rims and wheels are less likely to rust.

Stronger Casings Mean More Retreads

The lack of oxidation means that the tire casings remain stronger and can be retreaded additional times for longer tire life.

[The_Bloodguard]

Originally Posted by REVAN

Yes Fraoch, it's all about expansion. Nitrogen will not expand with heat as compressed air will. This is very important for racing but is a waste of money for your every day driver.

I paid nothing extra for the nitrogen at Costco but I'm not sure what other places that sell tires might charge.

[Unit44]

Originally Posted by SupDawg

Guys, I hate getting my alignment straigt.. Everytime I do so, my car pulls when it didn't prior to. What gives...

The reason a "perfectly" aligned car always pulls a little to the right is due to road crown (so rain drains quicker), the manufactures specs do assume a flat level surface for alignment so when you drive on the real road which is slanted a little to the right the car pulls a little this way. You can compensate for this with camber but sometimes doing this will cause premature tire wear, when I aligned vehicles I would use the exact specs and explain to customers why a little pull to the right is normal and they will get better fuel mileage (rolling friction is reduced) and tire wear with a properly aligned vehicle. To test this get on a 2 lane highway (interstate) with a straight section and get in the middle of the road when there are NO OTHER CARS AROUND and ride there for a second, the vehicle shouldn't pull much to either side......

[REVAN_abx]

Originally Posted by The_Bloodguard

I paid nothing extra for the nitrogen at Costco but I'm not sure what other places that sell tires might charge.

If it's free I'd choose the nitrogen.

[REVAN_abx]

Originally Posted by The_Bloodguard

I'm not sure how much of the following is true but I can tell you after working
in a gas station as a kid, our air compressor always had alot of water vapor
in the system which isn't good!
From this link

This sounds like this is a company that's making a sales pitch for nitrogen. A tire will wear out long, long before oxygen deterioration will affect that tire at all. The only affect it will have on wear is that the contact pattern of the tire will not change due to temperature change. It may bleed down slower with nitrogen, I can't argue that point because of my lack of knowledge on the subject, sounds feasible.

[zapionics<alt>]

Last time I bought tires they talked me into nitrogen as well because it was free with the tires. I was really sceptical, but after 12 months I gotta say its been great - halved the number of times I have to check the air pressure and the tires have run great. Also you can forget about any perceptible performance improvement - thats only for racing cars; I believe the best benefit for normal driving is that you dont get moisture inside the tire which can lead to corrosion of the wheel or tire itself.

[Fraoch]

Originally Posted by The_Bloodguard

I'm not sure how much of the following is true but I can tell you after working
in a gas station as a kid, our air compressor always had alot of water vapor
in the system which isn't good!
From this link

Those are all pretty valid points except the part about purity. I can't see 98% nitrogen being any better than 95%. The rest of the points all make a lot of sense though. The handling benefits are probably minimal but they are valid.

Hmm. I can't say I've ever seen nitrogen filling being a selling point around here, not that I've gotten my tires serviced much.

Incidentally 99.9% nitrogen would be a lot more expensive than 95% nitrogen (cryogenic distillation versus membrane separation).

[patentman]

Right after new tires are fitted then do check for allignment especially if you drive on bumped streets/have 20-40K km/car pulled or wheel was "light"/soft.
If you don`t do an allignment cause it didn`t need to or even if you do you may notice that car is pulling after the new tires.Don`t panic,it`s quite usual and is related to poor quality of tires and/or their storage.In this situation the first thing is to change wheel`s side from left to right.If there`s no improvement then change in a back to front manner.Also leave them to have a nice break-in period for about 200KM without starting spinning and heavily breaking and keep car`s weight load at a acceptable level.That will help their frame to be fully smooth equaly and tire be in a perfect circle.Keep pressures a little more than suggested,usually 2-3 PSI for break-in period.

My favourite makes are (depended on what use and dimension):
Michelin, Continental, Dunlop, Kleber (cheap "michelin")
A not so attractive ones: Goodyear, Pirelli
Bad ones :Firestone (maybe the worst brand name there,all but craps.Can be compared only to crap makes such as "CEAT"), Bridgestone (some very crappy some not so), Yokohama,Avon and all other stuff.

Also keep in mind that every make isn`t as good as in all its types and certainly not for every car, road/weather and driver/style.You can`t go wrong with the top makers though.
Ohh, forgot that Yokohama has a very good type there (I don`t remember now) but else tires are crap.

In addition don`t get fooled that any country of manufacture is the same performance.The same tire made in France and Italy is way too different,best is France,Germany and UK.

Of course most of the spoken are valid for Europe as in America I don`t know.

[Clint_abx]

Here is a new tire MITCHELIN is comeing out with.

[SupDawg]

Originally Posted by Clint

Here is a new tire MITCHELIN is comeing out with.

Man, that is scary looking.. You got a link?