Teen found with 20 bombs at school

[David Habermehl]

Originally posted by Cogar <snip> Someone with a bad foundation (abusive environment, no discipline or responsibility, no sense of right and wrong--just what works for you, etc.) will not feel as compelled to "follow the rules." Such a person can get ideas (or influence) from sources like TV, movies, and video games and decide to act things out since there is nothing else in their value system or worldview to restrain it.

I agree with Cogar. We have a dismaying number of sociopaths and psychopaths in the USA, and we can (and should) point to cultural influences that exacerbate the situation. IMHO, one of the primary influences, which has already been pointed out in this thread, is the widespread dereliction of accountability for one's actions. Teach your children well, to be responsible for what they do.

[Wingit]

Ok gentlemen, on a more serious note, while I agree completely that lack of accountability on ethical and moral matters is of grave concern in this country, I hardly believe that the answer can be legislated by political hacks who will jump on the latest "cause celebre" blindly condemning whatever target of opportunity (videogames, films, art, whatever)has been made available. The root cause is and always has been in the home. Each of us as individuals will need to work to implement the concept of ethical and moral accountability, not waiting for some grand "wave of change" or "caretaker legislation" to do it for us. To focus on games or films as a root cause is an error the likes of which has become all too common....we need to look closer at ourselves. A change occured in our society at some point in the not-so-distant past that has taken us from a society that had hopes and expectations for it's members and it's children to one that makes excuses for them. This change did not occur solely in the United States btw..... Just my .02.

[Panama Red]

Well said, wingit. We've changed from a "can do" society (USA) to a "not my fault" society. When we all stop looking for someone/something else to blame and take personal responsibility for our actions, great things will occur.

[epicbard]

Originally posted by Brain
Your country of origin (the wee flag under your name) seems to change almost daily. I figured you must be doing a lot of travelling.

I see. Well i am an international man of mystery

I decided that i would change it daily and try out some of the countries that never show up here

[epicbard]

Originally posted by Panama Red
Well said, wingit. We've changed from a "can do" society (USA) to a "not my fault" society. When we all stop looking for someone/something else to blame and take personal responsibility for our actions, great things will occur.

It all depends on the situation at hand. In case of kids acting like fools dont look at external faults but look at the parents.

[Cogar]

Originally posted by isomer
It all depends on the situation at hand. In case of kids acting like fools dont look at external faults but look at the parents.

In the same way that you cannot put all the blame on videogames, etc. it is naive to make blanket statements about the parents. I know many instances where the parents and all the kids except one were fine and the other child ended up being a delinquent or worse. Other influences (friends and the literature/music/etc. they introduce to the child) can be stronger than the home environment. This is especially true in a society where kids are urged to grow up early by the media (and sometimes misguided teachers). Spending maybe 30 minutes a day in their home while hanging out for hours with their friends (or alone reading some anarchist literature) does not give the parents enough time to overcome the kind of influence that would drive a kid to want to kill people at school.

[qiqazz]

I live in northern Vermont and when I was going to North Country Union High School a kid named Adam West(not a friend of mine but seemed to be a good kid and I often spoke to him) brought a 9mm automatic(I think it was a M92 Berretta) with hollow points and hardball ammo with a list of names. When he realized that the #1 kid on his list(Jeff something) wasn't there he gave the gun to a teacher whom he trusted and expected it back at the end of the day. Needless to say the teacher agreed and promptly called the police. My school at the time had 1157 students. This happened at a school this small! Everyone had knives the teachers didn't care because in a place like this everyone hunts and fishes. I never felt any desire to bring a gun to school but I could have any given day. I now own a Desert Eagle .50 AE with a Reddot Nikon sight, Ruger .44 mag Super Blackhawk 7 7/8in barrel, Ruger Mark II Gov't Target Pistol 6 7/8in bull barrel, Glock 21 .45acp, a 20 and 12 gauge Mossberg pumps, Stevens(Savage Arms) .30-30, all original 1954 Russian SKS, .22lr Remington Scoremaster, and my 1903A3 .30-06 Remington Springfield. Thats ten firearms and not one has ever been in a state or government building(well not since I've owned them) so can any sensible person say that guns are themselves bad? No. BTW I won't be 18 till May 4th so they aren't technically mine until they are signed over to me in May.

[Spoonman_abx]

lack of discipline - parents put their kids into "timeouts" and try to "reason" with them when they behave improperly - which isnt much of a punishment at all.

I remember when i was about 6 years old, and I wanted to climb one oo the bookshelves in our house - my father saw me and said "If you hurt yourself, I'll break your legs". Needless to say I thought twice about doing stupid things from that point on, but only because I knew there were no empty threats behind what he said.

It may sound silly and simplistic - but the way you raise your kids when they are 2-12 years old has a HUGE impact on how they turn out when they're older.

[Spoonman_abx]

hey qiqazz - how's the DE .50 AE? I always thought that if I tried to shoot one my arms would fall off lol .

I'm looking to get a H&K USP 45 in a few months - Need to save up some pennies first tho

[qiqazz]

For me its great but noone else can seem to handle it. It doesn't jam in my hands but in my dads it jams every few shots(arthritis doesn't let him hold it too tight), and the shells hit my brother in the forehead when he uses it. For me with my grip it functions flawlessly and the shells eject straight up and arc to the right. Make sure that if you get one its made in Israel... the US can no longer make them since they were not up to the Israeli Military Institutes standards. It seems to have been designed in a gun vise as it must be held firm and level even during recoil. You cannot put a hand under the grip or set it on a bench that way while firing as upward pressure on the magazine will cause it to jam. You need to practice holding it on your own since this gun is very unique and I can't really teach anyone to fire it on the forums. The USP's are great I just wish that the actual Mark 23 SOCOM(Special Operations COMmand) Pistol was on the market. I don't need a suppressor but the threads for mounting one make it look cool. Also the SOCOM allows you to lock the slide shut so that the action and the shells ejection don't give special ops away.

[pd417]

OK, I have to be the dissenting vote here, so Im sure I'll get considerable flack for it.

While not 100% at fault, I believe that the media and certain video games do play a part in some people's (specifically adolescents) behavior. Look at what's being marketed to them. The majority of games today have a significant violent overtones, mostly first person shooters or fighting.

Adolescents are very impressionable and if they find a reason to connect to a particular image, game or idea, thay can and do easily emulate it. This may be for popularity, power or just to be different.

It has be proven that constant exposure to repeated violence through various sources has a tendency to desensitize a person. Think of it as a person chronically addicted to drugs. After a while the high means nothing to them, so they look for a new high.

And yes, a big part of the problem today is individuals not taking responsibility for their own actions. As soon as they are caught, they immediately blame the most convienient source, wheather it be their parents, video games or their own low self esteem. If you do something, good or bad, admit it and take the consequences.

Just my $0.02....

[shootcraps]

Originally posted by qiqazz
BTW I won't be 18 till May 4th so they aren't technically mine until they are signed over to me in May.

And you can't own the handguns until you're 21 so that's 3 more years.