Changing MB Q's please

moregolf · 12-06-2002, 01:04 AM

I am going from an Asus P4B266 to a P4PE. I have Win XP Pro installed. Can I change the MB without reinstalling Win XP Pro? Thsi goes from a 845 to a 845pe chipset. Thanks...

SupDawg · 12-06-2002, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moregolf
I am going from an Asus P4B266 to a P4PE. I have Win XP Pro installed. Can I change the MB without reinstalling Win XP Pro? Thsi goes from a 845 to a 845pe chipset. Thanks...

You can, but I would save your valuable data first.

The problem is the IDE/INF drivers that usually are mobo sensitive.

It is not recommended to do this, but if you really don't want too, try it. You might get lucky :o

moregolf · 12-06-2002, 09:29 AM

I was thinking that I would take the sound drivers out, the IAA and the INF out, reboot to the CD ad install the new ones. I do have a 'Ghosted' copy on anothetr HDD. I have been successful with 440BX boards doing this, but.......That was with another OS also..

Phalanx28 · 12-06-2002, 09:37 AM

You don't need to reinstall Windows XP, but I'd strongly recommend 'repairing' the installation. You won't have to reformat which means less time backing up your data and reinstalling programs.

Put in the Windows XP CD, reboot and choose setup, not repair. You're really just reinstalling over the current installation.

Phalanx28

moregolf · 12-06-2002, 09:46 AM

I'm confused. First you said "repairing" then you said don't repair, do a setup. Doesn't the setup overwrite the entire OS?
Then do I have to redo all the tweaks? Thanks....

Phalanx28 · 12-06-2002, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moregolf
I'm confused. First you said "repairing" then you said don't repair, do a setup. Doesn't the setup overwrite the entire OS?
Then do I have to redo all the tweaks? Thanks....

When you choose the repair option during setup, it takes you to a command prompt. Which is where I got lost.

So, I just decided to reinstall Windows over the the current installation - and yes, I believe you'll need to 're-tweak' the OS.

Phalanx28

moregolf · 12-06-2002, 05:27 PM

Thanks... Appreciated..

navalair · 12-07-2002, 07:02 AM

My question (or problem) is similar to moregolf's in that I am changing MBs. It differs somewhat from moregolf's as I will explain. In a few days I am anticipating arrival of a new case (Lian-Li PC-6089), a new P4 2.53Ghz cpu, and a new Intel D850EMV2L MB (with onboard LAN and audio). My plan is to install the new cpu and Intel MB in the new case, then remove my GF4 video card, two HDs, rdram memory, floppy disk, CD-Rom, and CD-RW from an existing Dell 8200 and install all these parts in the Lian-Li. I would also transfer the keyboard, mouse, printer, scanner, and cable modem from the Dell to the new case. In effect I will be trashing the Dell to save some money in building a new PC leaving behind the Dell with only its MB, cpu, audio card and NIC card (won't need them: using onboard audio and LAN in the new PC).

What I would like to be able to do is to boot up the new system from the old system HD with its WindowsXP OS and watch as the new Intel MB's bios and XP recognize the changes in audio and ethernet card and make the necessary changes (and somehow magically replace the proprietary Dell logo bios and its bootup screen with the new bios display).

But it won't happen that way, right? I'm not even sure that trying to find and remove all old audio and LAN *.inf files and drivers before booting up the new MB, as has been suggested, will work for me either. Am I faced with having to do a clean install of XP with a new activation and reinstall of SP1? And, if so, am I going to find I am in violation of the EULA's "one computer-one copy of XP" rule? My thanks in advance to anyone offering guidance or recommendations.

CYCLOPS · 12-08-2002, 09:58 AM

Look up the proceedure to MIGRATE to another computer in the MS Knowledge Base. It explains fully how to use a complete NTbackup (including system state) to overlay a fresh install.

I'm going to be doing this soon and I know others who have done it.

Build the new machine and fresh install from the XP install disk.
Install all necessary drivers for new hardware.
Use the NTbackup you created and restore it on the new machine.

The Hardware Application Layer (HAL) is capable of sorting out which correct drivers to use and keeps the new ones. The other backup files replace all your other settings, pws, prefs, etc.
You end up with your previous system and settings running on new hardware.

If you have to change the product key, there is an article on doing that in the KB as well that will tell you how to keep your original ID key.

navalair · 12-08-2002, 12:23 PM

Thank you, CYCLOPS, for your excellent response. I am going to locate the MS KB article(s) you reference and hope that the solution you recommend works for me as you state it has for others. I also came across another recommended procedure for avoiding activation that requires making a backup copy of wpa.dbl, which I have done, and using this file to restore my "old" hardware "fingerprint." Apparently the idea is that my original hardware configuration is captured in wpa.dbl, and using this file creates a file called wpa.bak at startup. The procedure for using it goes something like this: If the activation code is triggered, one recovers from this requirement to activate by restoring the old hardware through renaming wpa.bak to wpa.dbl. This is supposed to reactivate the new system, however, it is a procedure recommended for use with Windows XP Pro as it involves starting the computer in "Networked Safe Mode," which I don't believe is available under Home Edition. With that in mind, your recommended work around sounds like the one to try.

The crux of the problem is the definition of a "new computer." I have my definition and Microsoft has theirs, and only the latter one counts in this contest of wits. I could try to find the WPA (Windows Product Activation) clearinghouse phone number and explain that the Dell 8200 will be a "shell" computer (to be sold on eBay in whole or pieced out) and no longer exists after I have transferred most of it to my new MB and case. I have a feeling that logic would fall on deaf ears and "new computer" followed by "one computer, one XP OS" is all I would hear from them along with "read your EULA." It seems that if one replaces or upgrades four or more components from a list of ten within a period of 120 days or less, the "new computer" definition kicks in with reactivation required. The list includes: video card, primary hard disk, CD-ROM drive, disk controller, network adapter, CPU, and RAM. I haven't a clue what the other three components are, but I am batting only 3 out of 7 so far, so I figure the WPA would find me in default.

Again, I appreciate your comments, and I certainly hope the KB reference you provided will work and save me another $100.

navalair · 12-09-2002, 07:21 AM

I apologize for taking too much of too many persons' time with my motherboard swapping issue. According to the relevant MS KB article shown following, I will meet at least eight of the ten hardware characteristics, a fact which makes this a "non-issue" in my case. I have pasted the KB article here in an attempt to inform others who may be considering a system change similar to mine.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Technical Activation Details

How does MPA determine tolerance? How many components of the computer can I change before I have to reactivate?

Common changes to hardware, such as upgrading a video card, adding a second hard disk, adding RAM, or upgrading a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive, do not require reactivation.

Specifically, MPA determines tolerance by using a point system. There are 10 hardware characteristics that are used to create the hardware hash. Each characteristic is equal to 1 point, except the network card, which is equal to 3 points. Tolerance is determined by what has not changed, instead of what has changed. If the current hardware hash is compared to the original hardware hash, there have to be 7 or more matching points for the two hardware hashes to be considered in tolerance. For example, if the network card, which is equal to 3 points, remains the same, only 4 additional points have to match. If the network card has been changed, a total of 7 points have to match. If the device is a portable computer (specifically a dockable device), additional tolerance is allotted and only 4 matching points are required. Therefore, if the device is dockable and the network card has not changed, only one additional point has to be the same, for a total of 4 points. If the device is dockable and the network card has changed, a total of 4 points have to match.

Technical Activation Details

Are the changes cumulative? If I change one component today, and then change one component tomorrow, is that considered two component changes?

The changes are cumulative; however, if a user is asked to reactivate, the hardware profile is reset to the new configuration.

Technical Activation Details

What are the 10 hardware characteristics that are used to determine the hardware hash?

The following 10 hardware characteristics are used to determine the hardware hash:
Display adapter
SCSI adapter
IDE adapter
Network adapter media access control address
RAM amount range (for example, 0-64MB or 64-128MB)
Processor type
Processor serial number
Hard disk device
Hard disk volume serial number
CD-ROM/CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive"

12-06-2002, 01:04 AM	#1
moregolf Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 1,464	Changing MB Q's please I am going from an Asus P4B266 to a P4PE. I have Win XP Pro installed. Can I change the MB without reinstalling Win XP Pro? Thsi goes from a 845 to a 845pe chipset. Thanks...
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12-06-2002, 09:29 AM	#3
moregolf Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 1,464	I was thinking that I would take the sound drivers out, the IAA and the INF out, reboot to the CD ad install the new ones. I do have a 'Ghosted' copy on anothetr HDD. I have been successful with 440BX boards doing this, but.......That was with another OS also..
(Offline)

12-06-2002, 09:37 AM	#4
Phalanx28 I don't know a damn thing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 2,228	You don't need to reinstall Windows XP, but I'd strongly recommend 'repairing' the installation. You won't have to reformat which means less time backing up your data and reinstalling programs. Put in the Windows XP CD, reboot and choose setup, not repair. You're really just reinstalling over the current installation. Phalanx28
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12-06-2002, 09:46 AM	#5
moregolf Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 1,464	I'm confused. First you said "repairing" then you said don't repair, do a setup. Doesn't the setup overwrite the entire OS? Then do I have to redo all the tweaks? Thanks....
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12-06-2002, 05:27 PM	#7
moregolf Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 1,464	Thanks... Appreciated..
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12-07-2002, 07:02 AM	#8
navalair Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: KS Posts: 51	My question (or problem) is similar to moregolf's in that I am changing MBs. It differs somewhat from moregolf's as I will explain. In a few days I am anticipating arrival of a new case (Lian-Li PC-6089), a new P4 2.53Ghz cpu, and a new Intel D850EMV2L MB (with onboard LAN and audio). My plan is to install the new cpu and Intel MB in the new case, then remove my GF4 video card, two HDs, rdram memory, floppy disk, CD-Rom, and CD-RW from an existing Dell 8200 and install all these parts in the Lian-Li. I would also transfer the keyboard, mouse, printer, scanner, and cable modem from the Dell to the new case. In effect I will be trashing the Dell to save some money in building a new PC leaving behind the Dell with only its MB, cpu, audio card and NIC card (won't need them: using onboard audio and LAN in the new PC). What I would like to be able to do is to boot up the new system from the old system HD with its WindowsXP OS and watch as the new Intel MB's bios and XP recognize the changes in audio and ethernet card and make the necessary changes (and somehow magically replace the proprietary Dell logo bios and its bootup screen with the new bios display). But it won't happen that way, right? I'm not even sure that trying to find and remove all old audio and LAN .inf files and drivers before booting up the new MB, as has been suggested, will work for me either. Am I faced with having to do a clean install of XP with a new activation and reinstall of SP1? And, if so, am I going to find I am in violation of the EULA's "one computer-one copy of XP" rule? My thanks in advance to anyone offering guidance or recommendations. __________________ Case: Lian Li PC-6089 CPU: P4 2.53Ghz 533fsb MB: Intel d850EMV2L Memory: 1G PC800 Rambus AGP: Leadtek Ti4400 128mb ddr Monitor: 19" Sony Multiscan G410 Modem: Motorola SB3100 cable Network: ZyAir B-2000 wireless router on server with two client PC's Firewall: ZA (free) NOD32AV, Spybot and Mailwasher, etc. Last edited by navalair : 12-07-2002 at 10:28 AM.*
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12-08-2002, 09:58 AM	#9
CYCLOPS Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: S NJ Posts: 527	Look up the proceedure to MIGRATE to another computer in the MS Knowledge Base. It explains fully how to use a complete NTbackup (including system state) to overlay a fresh install. I'm going to be doing this soon and I know others who have done it. Build the new machine and fresh install from the XP install disk. Install all necessary drivers for new hardware. Use the NTbackup you created and restore it on the new machine. The Hardware Application Layer (HAL) is capable of sorting out which correct drivers to use and keeps the new ones. The other backup files replace all your other settings, pws, prefs, etc. You end up with your previous system and settings running on new hardware. If you have to change the product key, there is an article on doing that in the KB as well that will tell you how to keep your original ID key.
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12-08-2002, 12:23 PM	#10
navalair Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: KS Posts: 51	Thank you, CYCLOPS, for your excellent response. I am going to locate the MS KB article(s) you reference and hope that the solution you recommend works for me as you state it has for others. I also came across another recommended procedure for avoiding activation that requires making a backup copy of wpa.dbl, which I have done, and using this file to restore my "old" hardware "fingerprint." Apparently the idea is that my original hardware configuration is captured in wpa.dbl, and using this file creates a file called wpa.bak at startup. The procedure for using it goes something like this: If the activation code is triggered, one recovers from this requirement to activate by restoring the old hardware through renaming wpa.bak to wpa.dbl. This is supposed to reactivate the new system, however, it is a procedure recommended for use with Windows XP Pro as it involves starting the computer in "Networked Safe Mode," which I don't believe is available under Home Edition. With that in mind, your recommended work around sounds like the one to try. The crux of the problem is the definition of a "new computer." I have my definition and Microsoft has theirs, and only the latter one counts in this contest of wits. I could try to find the WPA (Windows Product Activation) clearinghouse phone number and explain that the Dell 8200 will be a "shell" computer (to be sold on eBay in whole or pieced out) and no longer exists after I have transferred most of it to my new MB and case. I have a feeling that logic would fall on deaf ears and "new computer" followed by "one computer, one XP OS" is all I would hear from them along with "read your EULA." It seems that if one replaces or upgrades four or more components from a list of ten within a period of 120 days or less, the "new computer" definition kicks in with reactivation required. The list includes: video card, primary hard disk, CD-ROM drive, disk controller, network adapter, CPU, and RAM. I haven't a clue what the other three components are, but I am batting only 3 out of 7 so far, so I figure the WPA would find me in default. Again, I appreciate your comments, and I certainly hope the KB reference you provided will work and save me another $100. __________________ Case: Lian Li PC-6089 CPU: P4 2.53Ghz 533fsb MB: Intel d850EMV2L Memory: 1G PC800 Rambus AGP: Leadtek Ti4400 128mb ddr Monitor: 19" Sony Multiscan G410 Modem: Motorola SB3100 cable Network: ZyAir B-2000 wireless router on server with two client PC's Firewall: ZA (free) NOD32AV, Spybot and Mailwasher, etc. Last edited by navalair : 12-09-2002 at 04:53 AM.
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12-09-2002, 07:21 AM	#11
navalair Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: KS Posts: 51	I apologize for taking too much of too many persons' time with my motherboard swapping issue. According to the relevant MS KB article shown following, I will meet at least eight of the ten hardware characteristics, a fact which makes this a "non-issue" in my case. I have pasted the KB article here in an attempt to inform others who may be considering a system change similar to mine. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Technical Activation Details How does MPA determine tolerance? How many components of the computer can I change before I have to reactivate? Common changes to hardware, such as upgrading a video card, adding a second hard disk, adding RAM, or upgrading a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive, do not require reactivation. Specifically, MPA determines tolerance by using a point system. There are 10 hardware characteristics that are used to create the hardware hash. Each characteristic is equal to 1 point, except the network card, which is equal to 3 points. Tolerance is determined by what has not changed, instead of what has changed. If the current hardware hash is compared to the original hardware hash, there have to be 7 or more matching points for the two hardware hashes to be considered in tolerance. For example, if the network card, which is equal to 3 points, remains the same, only 4 additional points have to match. If the network card has been changed, a total of 7 points have to match. If the device is a portable computer (specifically a dockable device), additional tolerance is allotted and only 4 matching points are required. Therefore, if the device is dockable and the network card has not changed, only one additional point has to be the same, for a total of 4 points. If the device is dockable and the network card has changed, a total of 4 points have to match. Technical Activation Details Are the changes cumulative? If I change one component today, and then change one component tomorrow, is that considered two component changes? The changes are cumulative; however, if a user is asked to reactivate, the hardware profile is reset to the new configuration. Technical Activation Details What are the 10 hardware characteristics that are used to determine the hardware hash? The following 10 hardware characteristics are used to determine the hardware hash: Display adapter SCSI adapter IDE adapter Network adapter media access control address RAM amount range (for example, 0-64MB or 64-128MB) Processor type Processor serial number Hard disk device Hard disk volume serial number CD-ROM/CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive" __________________ Case: Lian Li PC-6089 CPU: P4 2.53Ghz 533fsb MB: Intel d850EMV2L Memory: 1G PC800 Rambus AGP: Leadtek Ti4400 128mb ddr Monitor: 19" Sony Multiscan G410 Modem: Motorola SB3100 cable Network: ZyAir B-2000 wireless router on server with two client PC's Firewall: ZA (free) NOD32AV, Spybot and Mailwasher, etc.
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