Intel D975XBX (Bad Axe)

[Sandog]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

Aint that the truth along with all the wild speculation when it suddenly arrived. My 3.2EE is not a Northwood. I ran it for a little bit on factory air before I gave it the water. It ran cooler than the 3.2C, a Northwood, on air.

I guess I am a lack of heat junky. I simply don't like the heat the current crops of Intel chips generate and that is probably what is keeping me away from any further considerations in the near future. If I have the 3.2C running and the door closed to the room, it heats up like crazy. The 2.8C has much less effect.

The 3.2C and 3.2EE will run the same until you start using all the extra L3 cache on the die. You haven't been missing a thing really in staying with your 3.2EE. That system is not even noticeably slower than what I have now. You should be worried about heat and try to stay away from it. Waiting for the Conroe or something else later is a smart move. You shouldn't have to worry about the electric bill, fan noise, or your room heating up when you are computing. Intel makes a very nice stock heat sink (LGA-775)and I am waiting for an Intel CPU which can be adequately cooled by it while it runs silent. Preferably a Conroe that runs about as warm as a 2.8C.

Also I just read tonight after the AnandTech review was posted for the X1900XT that uses about 30-50 more watts than the 7800GTX which is already a hot card so I am really shooting myself in the foot there. I will use it though and probably get a 960 or 955EE later. My next case build will be geared toward cool and quiet though. I want to get some more fun out of this Koolance water cooled case and enjoy it. My current case is still not as quiet as I had my old Antec/D875PBZLK setup. The next build I will be changing back to air cooled CPU HSF.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2679&p=15

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Sandog

The 3.2C and 3.2EE will run the same until you start using all the extra L3 cache on the die. You haven't been missing a thing really in staying with your 3.2EE.

Actually the 3.2EE on air ran about 5 to 7C cooler than the 3.2C on air IIRC. I was quite surprised that the differing design made such a huge difference.
The 3.2EE is on the EXOS, orig, and the water seldom hits 32C. I have never had the EXOS perform a throttle-up. The CPU has never gotten hot enough to trip the sensor to the next level. Good thought, if that extra cache ever gets used a great deal, it probably will heat up some. Guess I'll find out if I ever start to process the VHS for hours at a time if the software is optimized to take advantage of hyper threading. My rendering is not fully optimized to utilize hyper threading so that doesn't put a full strain on the CPU let alone extra cache.

Pleased to learn that I haven't been missing anything. I do like both of the PBZ boards. The 865 board just isn't as smooth.

That system is not even noticeably slower than what I have now. You should be worried about heat and try to stay away from it.

Excellent advice. Stay away from the heat. The water cooling should help that along with 5 case fans and a zalman fan stirring things up.

Waiting for the Conroe or something else later is a smart move. You shouldn't have to worry about the electric bill, fan noise, or your room heating up when you are computing. Intel makes a very nice stock heat sink (LGA-775)and I am waiting for an Intel CPU which can be adequately cooled by it while it runs silent. Preferably a Conroe that runs about as warm as a 2.8C.

That would be great.

Also I just read tonight after the AnandTech review was posted for the X1900XT that uses about 30-50 more watts than the 7800GTX which is already a hot card so I am really shooting myself in the foot there. I will use it though and probably get a 960 or 955EE later.

Hey, don't sweat it. You like to try out the new stuff and fly it for a while. Besides, you'll have fun doing it.

My next case build will be geared toward cool and quiet though. I want to get some more fun out of this Koolance water cooled case and enjoy it. My current case is still not as quiet as I had my old Antec/D875PBZLK setup. The next build I will be changing back to air cooled CPU HSF.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2679&p=15

Yup, really quiet would be nice.

I have the game rig in a Lian-Li case. The case is light, the motherboard slide out tray is a joy. Everything is well engineered. But, I swear, that aluminum case is loud. It is the only Al case we have, the rest are steel, but it sure seems to be lots louder for what it is. I guess the Al does not dampen the sounds like steel.

[AHLnut]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

Yes, you are correct S-video out is what we are talking about. Good catch

This is important info you have provided because the quality of the recordings isn't that great to start with on a high number of the tapes.

So that means:
1. New s-video vcr.
2. Video capture device for computer.
3. Video capture software.

Thanks again.

This is a huge topic. One thing to remember though when the time comes. I found that if you capture in MPEG-2 format, capture it at the bitrate you will burn it at. This helps it from re-compiling. This info is off the wall, LOL, but it was one of my biggest mistakes. Of course you could capture it at a non-compressed quality, then once edited, converted it to MPEG-2. pointreyes didn't have too much good to say about Pinnacle software. It is buggy. However, later versions worked better and it is very easy to use. Lots of choices software wise. The sad thing is, XP has software to capture and edit, however, as far as I know, it doesn't convert to DVD

[pointreyes]

My dual Xeon system is quieter than my dual-core P-D system but not by much. Temps are about the same though. The dual-core Opteron was very, very quiet.

Have 5 Seagate SATA drives and the 6600GT in the Xeon. (1 90mm and 1 120mm fan) (4 120mm fans)
Have 3 SATA drives and 2 SCSI drives and the X800GTO in the P-D system. (4 120mm fans)

The Apple is the quietest but then again we are talking about 1.33Ghz compared to 2.66x2 and 3.0Ghz systems.

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by AHLnut

This is a huge topic. One thing to remember though when the time comes. I found that if you capture in MPEG-2 format, capture it at the bitrate you will burn it at. This helps it from re-compiling. This info is off the wall, LOL, but it was one of my biggest mistakes. Of course you could capture it at a non-compressed quality, then once edited, converted it to MPEG-2. pointreyes didn't have too much good to say about Pinnacle software. It is buggy. However, later versions worked better and it is very easy to use. Lots of choices software wise. The sad thing is, XP has software to capture and edit, however, as far as I know, it doesn't convert to DVD

Hullo! I didn't know XP had capture and editing software included. There is lots I don't know about XP. So then all I would need is some hardware to capture the signal and then some burning software that will let me make chapters. As you can tell, I'm a total noob on this DVD stuff.

The capture at the bit rate you want to burn seems wise. Thanks for the tip.

Cheers,

Zep

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pointreyes

My dual Xeon system is quieter than my dual-core P-D system but not by much. Temps are about the same though. The dual-core Opteron was very, very quiet.

Have 5 Seagate SATA drives and the 6600GT in the Xeon. (1 90mm and 1 120mm fan) (4 120mm fans)
Have 3 SATA drives and 2 SCSI drives and the X800GTO in the P-D system. (4 120mm fans)

The Apple is the quietest but then again we are talking about 1.33Ghz compared to 2.66x2 and 3.0Ghz systems.

The numbers don't mean much when you throw the apple in there. Isn't apple running on a much more RISCy set than the PC and thus a little faster for a given CPU speed in real world use?

Also, take a good look at iMove and iDVD. A couple of pretty easy to use rudementary tools.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot that these were taken out in Tiger, but free with Panther

[Intel_User]

Modern x86 CPUs all use RISC-like architectures with an x86 decoder. X86 CPUs are every processors Intel produces for PC and laptops, the x being the number(you learn that in mathematics), and 86 being the family nomenclature. 286, 386, 486.

I don't know since when, but modern x86 CPUs use RISC internal with x86 decoder, so you can't say Macs are better since they are RISC-y.

Actually, x86 CPUs are much faster than Macs.

[Intel_User]

The Apple is the quietest but then again we are talking about 1.33Ghz compared to 2.66x2 and 3.0Ghz systems.

The reason is that except for few PC apps, G4 architecture really sucks. Pentium runs cool, who cares nowadays??

[Sandog]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

Actually the 3.2EE on air ran about 5 to 7C cooler than the 3.2C on air IIRC. I was quite surprised that the differing design made such a huge difference.
The 3.2EE is on the EXOS, orig, and the water seldom hits 32C. I have never had the EXOS perform a throttle-up. The CPU has never gotten hot enough to trip the sensor to the next level. Good thought, if that extra cache ever gets used a great deal, it probably will heat up some. Guess I'll find out if I ever start to process the VHS for hours at a time if the software is optimized to take advantage of hyper threading. My rendering is not fully optimized to utilize hyper threading so that doesn't put a full strain on the CPU let alone extra cache.

Pleased to learn that I haven't been missing anything. I do like both of the PBZ boards. The 865 board just isn't as smooth.

Excellent advice. Stay away from the heat. The water cooling should help that along with 5 case fans and a zalman fan stirring things up. That would be great.

Hey, don't sweat it. You like to try out the new stuff and fly it for a while. Besides, you'll have fun doing it.

Yup, really quiet would be nice.

I have the game rig in a Lian-Li case. The case is light, the motherboard slide out tray is a joy. Everything is well engineered. But, I swear, that aluminum case is loud. It is the only Al case we have, the rest are steel, but it sure seems to be lots louder for what it is. I guess the Al does not dampen the sounds like steel.

I never heard that before about the 865, interesting.

I am looking forward to the ATI card. I like ATI's IQ and later I will get a cooler running ATI card when it becomes available. Like one of the reviews of the new X1900 cards concluded, even if the 1900 series were only a little less or more fast than the 7800 series it would still be a better card because of the video quality. Also, don't look for the next NVidia G71 card to run cooler than the current 7800GTX 512 either. It will probably be Q2, 2007 before I can really build a fast an quiet system (Intel of course).

Aluminum cases are the noisiest. Ever notice how much noise an aluminum bat makes or when you crumple an aluminum can? Aluminum is not as dense as steel. It does offer faster heat transfer and is much lighter, looks better and can be formed into nicer pieces plus it can be anodized (no paint).

[Sandog]

I am in no hurry at all to get rid of my 840EE which has EIST/C1E and lose $500 in the process (catch that pun?). I am easily awaiting the D955EE with EIST next quarter. By then I hope to hear news on the Conroe EE which will even put that purchase off. It could also be that the Conroe needs a new chipset board like Intel_user says. In that case the D955EE is totally out of the picture. After the initial Conroe EE, Intels next EE will probably come out in 2007 and be a dual core based on .45nm. After that it will be quad most likely so I have to think about what I will be most comfortable with for the longest period. I can not sustain buying each new Intel EE CPU and associated mobo that comes out. Prices are getting ridiculous nowadays and I am not Donald Trump. I feel I have reached the necessary speed needed already for games and home apps. Now I am waiting for cooler running chips and a quieter box.

[GFORCE100]

Originally Posted by Sandog

Also, don't look for the next NVidia G71 card to run cooler than the current 7800GTX 512 either. It will probably be Q2, 2007 before I can really build a fast an quiet system (Intel of course).

Have 2 different 7800GTX 512's here and both run quiet, top temps about 60C according to the Nvidia drivers (81.98). I wouldn't expect anything with 300 million or more transistors running cooler.

I fear the 1900XT or XTX isn't enough, I could best it now with an overclocked 7800GTX 512 because that would then give a near identical pixel throughput and that's what counts in the latest games etc. Nvidia alrady have 30% better texel throughput without overclocking it. With the memory at 1.9GHz this yields 60.9GB/sec against the XTX's 49GB/sec.

ATI have done too little too late, they have 4 weeks to enjoy themselves because 7900's are soon to be unveiled before spring and you'll see hints of what to expect before then. If you think about it, a 7800GTX 512 with 32 pixel pipelines and 1.9GHz memory default will once again overtake ATI's latest offering.

ATI no longer have the advantage they had in 2003/04 when the 9700 was clearly the better technology. IQ is also a non issue anymore, it's all in the drivers now. Now it's a case of a) who can offer better TTM (Time To Market) and b) who can have the faster best featured product at the best price to the consumer with strong availability.

[Sandog]

Originally Posted by GFORCE100

Have 2 different 7800GTX 512's here and both run quiet, top temps about 60C according to the Nvidia drivers (81.98). I wouldn't expect anything with 300 million or more transistors running cooler.

I fear the 1900XT or XTX isn't enough, I could best it now with an overclocked 7800GTX 512 because that would then give a near identical pixel throughput and that's what counts in the latest games etc. Nvidia alrady have 30% better texel throughput without overclocking it. With the memory at 1.9GHz this yields 60.9GB/sec against the XTX's 49GB/sec.

ATI have done too little too late, they have 4 weeks to enjoy themselves because 7900's are soon to be unveiled before spring and you'll see hints of what to expect before then. If you think about it, a 7800GTX 512 with 32 pixel pipelines and 1.9GHz memory default will once again overtake ATI's latest offering.

ATI no longer have the advantage they had in 2003/04 when the 9700 was clearly the better technology. IQ is also a non issue anymore, it's all in the drivers now. Now it's a case of a) who can offer better TTM (Time To Market) and b) who can have the faster best featured product at the best price to the consumer with strong availability.

Hey GForce100,

I agree totally on all that, I have been using my Leadtek 7800GTX card since the 7800's came out and it is fine, the problems and quality or a non-issue. I am most interested in the power these top video cards consume. I posted in Rage3D asking what the power would be like and got no answer before I purchased. I read one site that said it would run about the same but that was a lie. All I realized before I bought it (I was in a hurry to get one before they sold out) was that the ATI card exhausts the heat out the back which is better to me than the heat blowing inside the case. If NVidia becomes the AMD of video cards and produces a faster model with lower power consumption then I will get that. It would be awesome also if the next NVidia card was only a single slot card like it is now.

[GFORCE100]

Originally Posted by Sandog

Hey GForce100,

I agree totally on all that, I have been using my Leadtek 7800GTX card since the 7800's came out and it is fine, the problems and quality or a non-issue. I am most interested in the power these top video cards consume. I posted in Rage3D asking what the power would be like and got no answer before I purchased. I read one site that said it would run about the same but that was a lie. All I realized before I bought it (I was in a hurry to get one before they sold out) was that the ATI card exhausts the heat out the back which is better to me than the heat blowing inside the case. If NVidia becomes the AMD of video cards and produces a faster model with lower power consumption then I will get that. It would be awesome also if the next NVidia card was only a single slot card like it is now.

A 7800GTX is about 100 watts, a 7800GTX 512 about 110-115 or 120 watts if overclocked that little bit more.

I'm actually surprised you state your concern in rerference to power consumption because the 840EE at 4.2GHz is pulling about 180W on its own which is like shinning too very bright lightbuls non-stop even when the CPU idle. Devices that get hotter pull more power to sustain operation at a given level X. As Presscott's do run hotter down to the power leakage issues with running so many transitors at so high speeds at such a small manufacturing level (don't forget at 90nm the distance between transistors is actually about 45nm, 90nm just means the size of transistors) they naturally pull more power and no CIE, TM1 or TM2 will solve that because under load these power saving technologies can't be used if we still want top performance.

If you're like me (and in this respect I think you are ), I don't just hope Intel will pull out a EE with C1E but also that they'll still release a 3.73GHz version (official name Pentium Extreme 965). If they can still get it to run within the 05B system thermal spec then there's nothing to stop them, unless of course it would interfere with Conroe's performance at launch (which I doubt). With this said however I would still expect an overclocked 965EE to give the 1st wave of Conroe chips a run for thier money. This theory, based purely on overclockability characteristics of Prescott's, does seem plausible if we consider a 5GHz Prescott against a 3.3GHz Conroe.

Untilately though people will fall in love with the Conroe down to performance per watt that counts down their yearly power bill. With the price of gasoline up again, the fact the US could announce war on Iran in 2007 (think this is a good year to bet on given the build up of tension over the past 2 years), people care more than ever about how much they spend. We no longer live in the 70's were students could afford to run run V8 5L engines because gas was so cheap, today it's all about efficiency (even in the US that's been anti efficient for the past 20 years). Plasma TV's for example sell because they're cheap but what a lot of people don't know is why, and besides the technology cost there's the running cost. a 42 nch plasma is around 400W, an LCD would be around 200W. Anyway the point of the matter is what Centrino did to laptops, Conroe will do to desktops, revolutionise the landscape.

Anything based on the P6 architecture first introduced in the Pentium Pro 150MHz (1995) can be only seen as a positive move for Intel.

Back in 2000 we had the race who could get to 1GHz, in the future we'll have a similar race, who can design the fastest performance per each watt. We'll also see 1GHz in our PDA's before 2008 so things are looking good.

[AHLnut]

Originally Posted by Sandog

Hey GForce100,

I agree totally on all that, I have been using my Leadtek 7800GTX card since the 7800's came out and it is fine, the problems and quality or a non-issue. I am most interested in the power these top video cards consume. I posted in Rage3D asking what the power would be like and got no answer before I purchased. I read one site that said it would run about the same but that was a lie. All I realized before I bought it (I was in a hurry to get one before they sold out) was that the ATI card exhausts the heat out the back which is better to me than the heat blowing inside the case. If NVidia becomes the AMD of video cards and produces a faster model with lower power consumption then I will get that. It would be awesome also if the next NVidia card was only a single slot card like it is now.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/...nes/page7.html
Some numbers for you.

[Sandog]

Originally Posted by GFORCE100

A 7800GTX is about 100 watts, a 7800GTX 512 about 110-115 or 120 watts if overclocked that little bit more.

I'm actually surprised you state your concern in rerference to power consumption because the 840EE at 4.2GHz is pulling about 180W on its own which is like shinning too very bright lightbuls non-stop even when the CPU idle. Devices that get hotter pull more power to sustain operation at a given level X. As Presscott's do run hotter down to the power leakage issues with running so many transitors at so high speeds at such a small manufacturing level (don't forget at 90nm the distance between transistors is actually about 45nm, 90nm just means the size of transistors) they naturally pull more power and no CIE, TM1 or TM2 will solve that because under load these power saving technologies can't be used if we still want top performance.

If you're like me (and in this respect I think you are ), I don't just hope Intel will pull out a EE with C1E but also that they'll still release a 3.73GHz version (official name Pentium Extreme 965). If they can still get it to run within the 05B system thermal spec then there's nothing to stop them, unless of course it would interfere with Conroe's performance at launch (which I doubt). With this said however I would still expect an overclocked 965EE to give the 1st wave of Conroe chips a run for thier money. This theory, based purely on overclockability characteristics of Prescott's, does seem plausible if we consider a 5GHz Prescott against a 3.3GHz Conroe.

Untilately though people will fall in love with the Conroe down to performance per watt that counts down their yearly power bill. With the price of gasoline up again, the fact the US could announce war on Iran in 2007 (think this is a good year to bet on given the build up of tension over the past 2 years), people care more than ever about how much they spend. We no longer live in the 70's were students could afford to run run V8 5L engines because gas was so cheap, today it's all about efficiency (even in the US that's been anti efficient for the past 20 years). Plasma TV's for example sell because they're cheap but what a lot of people don't know is why, and besides the technology cost there's the running cost. a 42 nch plasma is around 400W, an LCD would be around 200W. Anyway the point of the matter is what Centrino did to laptops, Conroe will do to desktops, revolutionise the landscape.

Anything based on the P6 architecture first introduced in the Pentium Pro 150MHz (1995) can be only seen as a positive move for Intel.

Back in 2000 we had the race who could get to 1GHz, in the future we'll have a similar race, who can design the fastest performance per each watt. We'll also see 1GHz in our PDA's before 2008 so things are looking good.

It's a shame Intel finally comes out with these fast new cores (960, 955EE, 965?) and 3mos later comes out with a new core design (Conroe).