Intel D975XBX (Bad Axe)

[GFORCE100]

Originally Posted by Sandog

It's a shame Intel finally comes out with these fast new cores (960, 955EE, 965?) and 3mos later comes out with a new core design (Conroe).

Management issues shall we call them? :o

Financial results however have been good hence although it can be proven Intel hasn't performed to its ability in delivering technology at the right time etc, investors have nothing to argue about. Unfortunately for enthusiast type consumers who share more interest in Intel's products than say your average Joe six pack, it's all about ensuring financial results and not about satisfying their desires. As long as a product sells and there's little to no inventory build up (i.e it sells as fresh baked bread) that's all that counts. I'll get a bigger pat on the back for bringing in better profits than a pat on the back for the great CPU architecture I made my design team produce. The latter is to my own satisfaction more than anything, the former is what the company cares most about.

For a company to perform to one's elite taste on all levels this requires a certain type of people and quite frankly too many people in this world work because they get paid and not also because they love their job. One thing is for sure though, if you design a CPU, find out things have gone worse than hoped, you cannot just say oh OK boys lets try again. The money poured into R&D of the given CPU for one prevents this (a CFO cannot justify/hide such large costs hoping investors don't notice or remain untouched). The other issue is time and the third, if it the CPU design failed then whose to blame and how can we be sure if we try again, the same mistake won't be made again. To me this means the CTO of the desktop platforms group but anyway, regardless of name the issue stands.

Even if a company is having hot times internally, externally it must play it cool because otherwise it could give too much away to its competition. Granted AMD can't really do much too quickly because of financial contraints, they could for example use such knowledge to better control the pricing of their CPU's.

Nothing's perfect, things have gotten so complex since the 1990's that it was bound to happen sooner or later, it's just that now in such a fast moving industry it cost a lot both in time and money to fix, and the resulting outcome has been delays in the release of products but also their remarketing (i.e. no more 4GHz in 2004 but 3.4GHz, how do we still make this look good etc.). As the saying goes however, anything that doesn't kill you can only make you stronger :o Lets just say my jaw would drop down to the depths of the Titanic if Intel was to make a similar mistake again. I would ask just what the heck is the HR department doing hiring people who obviously don't have the skill necessary. And where the hell are the heads in keeping a watchful eye and reporting any problems ASAP back to the CEO. Communications problems can also bust an organisation.

If you ask me, all this has only made Intel more aware of how to be the best and we'll be seeing this more and more and this time round, if AMD makes a mistake now, it could cost them deerly.

65nm Conroe's are looking good, I doubt there will be a delay in their release, no Houston we have a problem this time round.

[Sandog]

If the new Conroe EE outperforms the 955EE/965EE's then that would be a big waste of design hours and money. They might as well cancel the 9XXEE's.

[GFORCE100]

Originally Posted by Sandog

If the new Conroe EE outperforms the 955EE/965EE's then that would be a big waste of design hours and money. They might as well cancel the 9XXEE's.

Right but it doesn't cost anything extra to make the EE, just repackage the Pentium D, unlock some multipliers, unlock HT, give it a 1066 FSB and let the marketing department put it in an exclusive box and finally stick on the $999 price tag. Still a $60 CPU.

They need something to fill the gaps between products as having no product now would mean they a) lose some money and b) give its competitor an advantage in not having a product to compete with the Athlon FX series.

Other than that Presler wasn't really all that much effort, we'e talking about two 6xx series Presscott's stuck side by side without any extra magic involved. They still communicate over the FSB just like the older days with SMP enabled Pentium III's. It was more a process of V&V (Validation/Verification) to make sure it could work when released (i.e. stability, teething problems, synchronizing problems, L2 cache concurrency problems etc.). It's not 4MB L2 cache but 2x2MB hence it's literally two 6xx series playing side by side. This caused some confusion at first, for example Anandtech looked at it as having 4MB L2 cache and was surprised why the L2 latency has not changed since the 6xx series. This is an error, each CPU can only use its own 2MB L2 cache thus latency stays at 27 cycles.

Think about it slowly, why do you think Intel had Preslers at Spring IDF 2005 but not the Conroe family until IDF Fall 2005? Wasn't really any design work to do and as correctly realised, it was discovered it would be cheaper to produce (hence raise the feasibility factor thus please investors) by seperating both cores rather than stick them on the same die as in the Smithfield. A Smithfield was two 5xx series stuck together nice and close (and warm, heat was all located in the center of the CPU packaging, not so good for cooling), a Presler is the natural evolution, i.e. two 6xx series but instead spread out for the reason named above (cost) but also (this somehow reviews didn't pick up on) to allow heat to directly transfer more universally over the IHS (Intergrated Heat Spreader).

A big problem in hiring good people is that you can hire someone with the brains to do great designs and someone with the brains to manage a team to excel in their work, but rarely does one find someone who can do both. Take programmes, mad about their coding but without proper management we wouldn't have all these games that are out now. That's why there's only 1 of John Carmack and Gabe Newell. Same with hardware.

A building may only stand as tall as its foundation allows.

It's better to have a product and take one's chances at selling it than have no product for a given segment and face immediate defeat.

[Zeppelin]

Good discussion boys. The greed factor rules the companies. The arrogance regarding products for customers is astounding. Instead of a motto of serving the customer and thus prosper. The motto seems to be fool the ignorant customer into purchasing an inferior product that is insanely overpriced and thus we can justify our huge salarys and bonus packages to the shareholders while we try to cheat them out of their investment's profits.

[pointreyes]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

Good discussion boys. The greed factor rules the companies. The arrogance regarding products for customers is astounding. Instead of a motto of serving the customer and thus prosper. The motto seems to be fool the ignorant customer into purchasing an inferior product that is insanely overpriced and thus we can justify our huge salarys and bonus packages to the shareholders while we try to cheat them out of their investment's profits.

The scary thing about this discussion and that it's making me wonder if I should provide more income to Intel or to Seagate and the memory business. My 2.6Ghz laptop is more than powerful enough for what it's used for in the sense of processing power; however, the 4200rpm drive is miserable and the RAM at 1.0 Gig is dropping down to 7 Meg free when I'm playing with 64-bit virtual sessions in a 32-bit world. The virtualization feature is something on the Intel I can only do with the Preslers and further. However, by replacing the 4200rpm with the 5400.3 Seagate 160Gig drive I would have increased the space and speed. Up the RAM by another 512Meg would help as well but I'm bummed that I have to spend money for 1Gig in order to get the extra 512Meg. Total cost would be around $500~550. Decisions, decisions.

[Zeppelin]

The day of the consumer VCR seems to be ebbing. It took a while, but I found this HR-S2902U that should serve the purpose. http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?model...7277&pathId=49

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pointreyes

The scary thing about this discussion and that it's making me wonder if I should provide more income to Intel or to Seagate and the memory business. My 2.6Ghz laptop is more than powerful enough for what it's used for in the sense of processing power; however, the 4200rpm drive is miserable and the RAM at 1.0 Gig is dropping down to 7 Meg free when I'm playing with 64-bit virtual sessions in a 32-bit world. The virtualization feature is something on the Intel I can only do with the Preslers and further. However, by replacing the 4200rpm with the 5400.3 Seagate 160Gig drive I would have increased the space and speed. Up the RAM by another 512Meg would help as well but I'm bummed that I have to spend money for 1Gig in order to get the extra 512Meg. Total cost would be around $500~550. Decisions, decisions.

Laptops generally are a compromise. I like to max out the RAM on my laptops. Every one I have owned has been maxed. RAM is pretty cheap now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820221205

On the HD end of things I just keep essentials on the HD and keep all of the files/records either on a server or portable drive or thumb drive, etc. With blank CDs being so inexpensive, I also burn some files on to those and they go with me as required in the briefcase.

[pointreyes]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

The day of the consumer VCR seems to be ebbing. It took a while, but I found this HR-S2902U that should serve the purpose. http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?model...7277&pathId=49

Or is similar to that one for less cost?
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...A133276%3A4564

Another idea is get the VHS to DVD machine and use eraseable DVDs - import the digitally converted DVD onto the computer to edit and auther on a new permanent DVD.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...62055%3A105664

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pointreyes

Or is similar to that one for less cost?
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...A133276%3A4564

Another idea is get the VHS to DVD machine and use eraseable DVDs - import the digitally converted DVD onto the computer to edit and auther on a new permanent DVD.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...62055%3A105664

Thanks Pointy,
Both of those are good finds.

The earlier discussion with AHLnut was that plugging in via RCA jacks degraded quality significantly and that utilizing S-VHS output from the tape deck is beneficial. Hence, when I ran across a reasonably priced S-VHS machine, I thought I would show it to him.

Your all-in-one scenario is interesting and is worthy of further consideration. It would still require some type of DVD authoring software.

Other harware I am considering went into a different thread, Plextor ConvertX - experiences? (I don't want Sandog getting mad and throwing sharp pointy things at me for straying so far OT. The cleaver, yes, that would be fine I need a replacement.

[pointreyes]

Originally Posted by Zeppelin

On the HD end of things I just keep essentials on the HD and keep all of the files/records either on a server or portable drive or thumb drive, etc. With blank CDs being so inexpensive, I also burn some files on to those and they go with me as required in the briefcase.

I am using a file server but I have three OSes on this laptop - remember virtualization is being used. Pulling up those OSes is a r/w process on the drive. That slows everything down on the 'puter. I think I'm using 2/3 of my 100Gig drive and it contains no data files!

[Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by pointreyes

I am using a file server but I have three OSes on this laptop - remember virtualization is being used. Pulling up those OSes is a r/w process on the drive. That slows everything down on the 'puter. I think I'm using 2/3 of my 100Gig drive and it contains no data files!

You really pushin it there. Yup, go for a nice new 7200RPM unit with that load, I forgot
.
http://www.penguin-gear.com/product/...ure/PG-280.htm It is ideal type of device if you do decide to up-grade the notebook HDD. Just put the olde drive in this enclosure. This is win-win on upgrade

[Sandog]

I know one thing, those that bought the D875PBZLK and a Northwood and stuck with them until this point in time are very wise. I was smart in my initial decision but couldn't hold back on new tech lol.

I've had a 3.0C/3.2C/3.4C/3.2EE/3.4EE/3.46EE/3.73EE/840EE and at one point I bought a 2.8C OEM to get me between buying and selling the 3.2EE/3.46EE chips.

Not counting previous boards to D875PBZLK

D875PBZLKR 204/205/301/303 Bought 2 304's but sold ea. Still have a second 303.
D925XCV2
D925XECV2
D955XBKLKR

I think Intel should name a fab after me from all the support I've given them At least a mobo lol. Seriously, Intel has been appreciative to me in a very nice way, I am fixing to receive my 3rd fanboy board, the D975XBXLKR pretty soon.

[johnrr6]

Originally Posted by Sandog

I know one thing, those that bought the D875PBZLK and a Northwood and stuck with them until this point in time are very wise. I was smart in my initial decision but couldn't hold back on new tech lol.

I've had a 3.0C/3.2C/3.4C/3.2EE/3.4EE/3.46EE/3.73EE/840EE and at one point I bought a 2.8C OEM to get me between buying and selling the 3.2EE/3.46EE chips.

Not counting previous boards to D875PBZLK

D875PBZLKR 204/205/301/303 Bought 2 304's but sold ea. Still have a second 303.
D925XCV2
D925XECV2
D955XBKLKR

I think Intel should name a fab after me from all the support I've given them At least a mobo lol. Seriously, Intel has been appreciative to me in a very nice way, I am fixing to receive my 3rd fanboy board, the D975XBXLKR pretty soon.

Been Lurking-----thinking about building a dual core Intel after the great experience I've had with AMD dual cores-----fabulous chips.....

Anyway......You are exactly correct Sandog------Intel has not really added anything to the pot since their tremendous jump to Northwoods, 800FSB and the 875/865 chipset.

Since then------been pretty mundane.....

I still use a 3.2 Northwood on an Abit IC7 (875 Mobo)----the overclocked performance is astounding and I can still match benches with almost all the latest Intel stuff------and it's been almost three years!

The last of the great "good deals".......

[pointreyes]

Originally Posted by Sandog

I think Intel should name a fab after me from all the support I've given them

This certainly shows how much you support Intel.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...og&btnG=Search

[AHLnut]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1108124983258 That VCR would do just fine