My new game machine...

[traveler]

Originally Posted by TQ

I'm on the phone with Intel right now to see if they can explain what the line "updated support for DDR3-1600 memory".

And the answer is: it means the performance has been improved but it's still restricted to the previous limitations.

Yeah, put in the sticks.

Run 2 or 4 sticks of DDR3 1600 and enjoy!

[ctal]

Originally Posted by traveler

Yeah, put in the sticks.

Run 2 or 4 sticks of DDR3 1600 and enjoy!

The "previous limitations," that they are saying are still present, included having no more than 2 sticks if the memory is DDR3-1600.

Regards,
-- Al

[TQ]

Originally Posted by ctal

Yup, we've certainly discussed DDR2 vs. DDR3 enough in other threads, and there is no one right answer. I'd look at the user comments at NewEgg on the Asus and Gigabyte X48 DDR2 boards, as well as their DDR3 counterparts. But keep in mind that the GA-EX38DQ6 that I went with is a more mature product, and a more proven quantity, at this point, the "E" in the part number indicating second generation within their X38 family. And judging by what I've read X48 doesn't buy a whole lot in comparison with X38. You'll want to look at this review: X-bit labs - Do We Really Need Intel X48 Express? - Gigabyte GA-X48T-DQ6 Mainboard Review


-- Al

Good info. I'll also have to read up on how to initially set up such a board with DDR2 and an E84/8500.
Any thoughts on that? What would the board default to if I have a 1333Mhz CPU and I'm running 800Mhz DDR2?

Edit: Or even some of the DDR21066. I just checked Mushkin's price in top of the line DDR2 and it's $150 for 4GB. More and more I am beginning to think that for right now this is the best way to go.

[ctal]

My GA-EX38DQ6, with an E8400, defaulted to DDR2-800 speed, at stock voltage (I think around 1.9v), and very conservative latencies (5-5-5-15-2T). The OCZ memory I used loves higher voltage, and is spec'd for up to 2.4 volts, with much better latencies. I wound up running it at 4-4-4-12-2T at 2.27 volts, at DDR2-846 speed due to the cpu overclock and consequent fsb increase. It could stably do 3-4-4-4-12-2T at that voltage at DDR2-800 speed (i.e., with no overclock).

Keep in mind, as I noted in my "My New Build" thread, that the bios did not offer any memory-to-fsb ratios less than 1:1 (there were lots of choices greater than 1:1), so with an E8500 that can presumably overclock extremely well, DDR2-1066 would probably be a better choice. Assuming, that is, that you can find a DDR2-1066 that is known to perform reliably on the mobo you choose (especially with all slots filled); my understanding is that DDR2-1066 can be more prone to problems than DDR2-800.

-- Al

[TQ]

Originally Posted by ctal

My GA-EX38DQ6, with an E8400, defaulted to DDR2-800 speed, at stock voltage (I think around 1.9v), and very conservative latencies (5-5-5-15-2T). The OCZ memory I used loves higher voltage, and is spec'd for up to 2.4 volts, with much better latencies. I wound up running it at 4-4-4-12-2T at 2.27 volts, at DDR2-846 speed due to the cpu overclock and consequent fsb increase. It could stably do 3-4-4-4-12-2T at that voltage at DDR2-800 speed (i.e., with no overclock).

Keep in mind, as I noted in my "My New Build" thread, that the bios did not offer any memory-to-fsb ratios less than 1:1 (there were lots of choices greater than 1:1), so with an E8500 that can presumably overclock extremely well, DDR2-1066 would probably be a better choice. Assuming, that is, that you can find a DDR2-1066 that is known to perform reliably on the mobo you choose (especially with all slots filled); my understanding is that DDR2-1066 can be more prone to problems than DDR2-800.

-- Al

I'll keep that in mind and I'll read some more reviews. Right now I'm reading the X-Bit labs review of the GA-X38-DQ6. I noticed that the bus was running 399.6 Mhz while the FSB was 1598.6.

[ctal]

Originally Posted by TQ

I'll keep that in mind and I'll read some more reviews. Right now I'm reading the X-Bit labs review of the GA-X38-DQ6. I noticed that the bus was running 399.6 Mhz while the FSB was 1598.6.

Keep in mind that the GA-X38-DQ6 is the predecessor of the GA-EX38-DQ6 that I have. The second generation "E" version was apparently significantly improved in several ways.

Also, I should clarify (? )that my comments above about memory:fsb ratios refer to the fsb speed based on non-quad pumped terminology, e.g., a "1333 MHz fsb" has frequencies of 333 MHz for each clock of the two-phase clock arrangement.

The memory speed expressed in DDR2 or DDR3 terms (e.g., DDR2-1066), for a "1333 MHz" cpu and mobo is:

(1333/4) * 2 * (overclock factor) * (memory-to-fsb ratio).

Hope that helps,

-- Al

[TQ]

Originally Posted by ctal

Keep in mind that the GA-X38-DQ6 is the predecessor of the GA-EX38-DQ6 that I have. The second generation "E" version was apparently significantly improved in several ways.

Copy that.

[traveler]

Originally Posted by ctal

The "previous limitations," that they are saying are still present, included having no more than 2 sticks if the memory is DDR3-1600.

Regards,
-- Al

And what happens if there are 4 sticks of DDR3 1600?

And the board is flashed to the latest BIOS with the improved performance?

And the person TQ spoke with never spoke to the engineering department about what the new BIOS does and only read what we read? (reminds me of when I had to call Mushkin some years ago and no one really knew what they where talking about until I got connected to someone in the engineering/testing department)

And what happens if there were 4 sticks of DDR3 1800 RAM (or 2000 RAM) put in the slots? (think Intel would discuss this one?)

[TQ]

Originally Posted by traveler

And what happens if there are 4 sticks of DDR3 1600?

I'd imagine the board would either not post or default to 1333.

Originally Posted by traveler

And the board is flashed to the latest BIOS with the improved performance?

I'd reckon we see improved performance, but only if those slots were populated within spec.

Originally Posted by traveler

And the person TQ spoke with never spoke to the engineering department about what the new BIOS does and only read what we read?

He wasn't reading from what I read. He was reading a detailed explanation of what each new feature from this recent BIOS would implement. I simply gave you the condensed version.

Originally Posted by traveler

And what happens if there were 4 sticks of DDR3 1800 RAM (or 2000 RAM) put in the slots? (think Intel would discuss this one?)

You could call them if you're truly interested. I got the answer I was seeking.

[TQ]

Originally Posted by ctal

Keep in mind that the GA-X38-DQ6 is the predecessor of the GA-EX38-DQ6 that I have.

This board is, apparently, no longer being made. There is no listing of it on Gigabyte's website and NewEgg doesn't have it. There's a page on it, but no pricing, no way to order it and the page states it's "discontinued".

[ctal]

Originally Posted by traveler

And what happens if there are 4 sticks of DDR3 1600?

And the board is flashed to the latest BIOS with the improved performance?

And the person TQ spoke with never spoke to the engineering department about what the new BIOS does and only read what we read? (reminds me of when I had to call Mushkin some years ago and no one really knew what they where talking about until I got connected to someone in the engineering/testing department)

And what happens if there were 4 sticks of DDR3 1800 RAM (or 2000 RAM) put in the slots? (think Intel would discuss this one?)

I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make. I was simply stating the facts that the manual says the board will not work with four sticks of DDR3-1600, and that TQ's conversation with an Intel rep, who may or may not have known what he was talking about, provided no indication that the bios upgrade would change that.

Also, the board is not spec'd to support DDR3-1800 or 2000, although I'm not sure how that is relevant.

I'll add that as a long-time digital circuit designer my strong suspicion is that a situation like this, where DDR3-1333 and lower will work fine with four sticks, but DDR3-1600 will not work with more than two sticks, is most likely due to some combination of waveform quality, propagation delay, and digital noise problems on the circuit board hardware itself, which would not be fixable by a bios upgrade.

Regards,

-- Al

[traveler]

Originally Posted by TQ

I'd imagine the board would either not post or default to 1333.



I'd reckon we see improved performance, but only if those slots were populated within spec.



He wasn't reading from what I read. He was reading a detailed explanation of what each new feature from this recent BIOS would implement. I simply gave you the condensed version.



You could call them if you're truly interested. I got the answer I was seeking.

Does this motherboard not overclock? (as in 4 sticks of 1333 RAM oc'ed to 1600 or 1800?)

[ctal]

Originally Posted by TQ

This board is, apparently, no longer being made. There is no listing of it on Gigabyte's website and NewEgg doesn't have it. There's a page on it, but no pricing, no way to order it and the page states it's "discontinued".

Wow! It certainly is hard to keep up with these things. They still offer the DDR3 version; maybe that tells us something.

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-EX38T-DQ6 LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

-- Al

[traveler]

Originally Posted by ctal

[snip]

That said, although Intel boards have an excellent reputation for stability, the lack of cpu overclocking capability would really be a turn-off to me, especially with an E8xxx cpu. In another thread I posted a link to Sharky Extreme's review of the E8500, where they got to a stable 4.4 gHz or so even with the stock Intel cooler (although they took the voltage higher than I would feel comfortable with, to get to that point). So you are really giving up a lot of performance potential by not going with a good overclocking motherboard.

[snip]

Just saw this.

[TQ]

Originally Posted by ctal

Wow! It certainly is hard to keep up with these things. They still offer the DDR3 version; maybe that tells us something.

Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-EX38T-DQ6 LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

-- Al

Yeah, I've seen that one. I've been at this now since early this morning and I'm beginning to feel as though someone's replaced my brain with esoteric nomenclature.
I'm still looking for that particular RAM you used in your build. All I can find on NewEgg is the 2x1GB (2GB) kit. Lots of OCZ, only one entry with your unique string of letters and numbers.

By the way, any second suggestions, since the (here I go again with the alphanumerics) GA-EX38-DQ6? Perhaps one of the X48DDR2 varients...maybe this one...