Please help me get this cC0 700E past 1000

[rdmpe]

You guys are killing me with your 700s running so high! Heres what I can do.
From a cold boot I can only get a post at 973. Above that, no post, no video,
etc. After booting up, I can restart and get to 1015 maybe, but not very stable.
Even at 2.0 vcore, it kicks out of 3DMark2000. I'd really like to run this thing
at 1000 or more all the time. Heres other relevant data

700E oem cC0 phillipenes, pal6035/ystech fan, temps <120F (49C)
cusl2-c bios 1003, 133:133:33 ratios
128 mushkin rev2 cas 222 7/9
tnt2 non-ultra vidcard (have run this at 77MHz agp before, should be fine at 72)

So why can't I start up at 1000? Bad luck?
Should I sell this cpu on ebay and buy a new one and hope for better?

[garnet_abx]

I know the Mushkin is good ram, but have you tried a stick of something else? I was at a stable 966 and couldn't post over 980, I changed my ram and.........
Borrow a stick of ram and try it. Nothing to lose except time.


On the other hand, my first 700 chip wouldn't run over 728!

[Dr.Evil_abx]

turn the ratios down to 133:100:33 (cpu : mem: pci)
the ram might not go that high and play with the cas settings to find the sweet spot

[rdmpe]

Yep, I'll try the 133/100/100 setting, to see if it is the ram holding me up. I sure will be dissappointed if it is the ram since I thought the rev2 was pretty great stuff.

I didn't think it was ram tho since it'll warm boot to 143 fsb and run 3DMark, SETI, etc. I did notice probs at 5/7 tho just a little past the 133 fsb. I think performance at 133/100/33 would take a big hit that would be difficult to make up for with the cpu climbing up to 1050 or so. Are you guys running at 133/100/33 ? If so, have you benchmarked it vs. a slower cpu but 133/133/33 ratio?

What I really need is a softFSB type program that will automagically bump it up at windows startup. Tried "cpufsb" which says it supports cusl2, didn't work for me. Just froze.

[garnet_abx]

I'm running 133/133/33 - 2/2/2/ 7/9.
Yes, I did try it at 133/100/33. I can't remember the benchmark numbers, but I do remember it takes quite a drop in Sandra memory test. Don't remember running 3DMark2000. I do know I wanted to be running 133/133/33, that's what I got 133 ram for!

[rdmpe]

So tell me about this ram. Did you order it direct from them? How much $$? I'd borrow someone's ram to see what happens, but no o/cers around here who I know. I'd have to buy some.

[patentman]

Hi.
Your temp is quite high for that speed.
An easy and cheap way to test if a drop in cpu`s temp helps you get that mhz, is to set the heatsink fan to blow(important) and position another 12cm fan to blow straight to the HSF(important) at a distance of 10cm and of course with an open case.
Now see the fan speed of HSF(through a monitor prog-MBM5,probe) and if it has increased by 100-200 rpm,you should have a drop in cpu temp.
If the gain is 2C,test the system with minimal other settings(e.g. 133:100 mem,vga not OC`ed).

NOTE that if you deside to keep that extra fan to blow towards the HSF for long period,you will have unstable operation and wear of HS fan.

If the drop makes it a little more stablier,then post again to give you tips.

IF only my english was as good as my OC.

[garnet_abx]

randyminer, you can order this Mosel ram from a guy selling on Anandtech forum. At this point it's $68 for 128mb. Scan the forum you'll find him, He's sells a pile of it. Also at the same forum, compuwiz1 is selling 256mb sticks of Infineon ram for around $114. Look at what the people are saying about that stuff, including CUSL2 owners. Some are giving up there Mushkin because it runs better. I ordered a stick of it, but it hasn't arrived.

[rdmpe]

patentman:

Thanks for your suggestions. When I get home I will make a better record of my temps at what speed/vcore and post them. I am using a pal6035 with a YStech fan (24 cfm?) pulling air off the heatsink, and cheap silicon based thermal compound. I have a 120 mm fan blowing air into my case that I will remove and put in front of the hsf as you describe and see what happens.

Hottest I've gotten was 120F. I had vcore at 2.0, and was trying to get over 1015 stable. Still couldn't finish 3DMark, so had to back off. I thing I have a cC0 that is on the weak side of the o/c curve. I think most ppl just happily run these at 938.

Maybe I need a delta 36cfm fan. Don't want the noise tho!

I am also considering dropping a wire into the socket to connect the vid1 pin to the vss pin to set the default vcore to 1.80. This is not something that I take lightly tho. Most likely worst case would be wire also touches vid0 or vid2, so I get 1.85v or 2.0v, both of which I have run at before. Any opinions on this?

I found the mounting and removal of the pal6035 to be pretty difficult, and I'm not looking forward to doing it again.

[rdmpe]

Well, haven't gotten to the temperatures yet, and too late now. But here is the results fo my vcore VS post tests. (note that it takes 0.10 to 0.15 for me to get stable 3DMark2000 run, but didn't test this in all speeds.) This is done with 133/100/33, ram at cas333 7/9, so don't thing ram was a limiting factor here at all.

Vcore / Highest POST fsb
1.70 / 137
1.75 / 140
1.80 / 143
1.85 / 144
1.90 / 145
1.95 / 146
2.00 / 147

Temperatures tomorrow night, and maybe a bios flash to 1006.003
My cC0 must be on the weak side, cuz some are cold booting over
147 fsb!

[patentman]

Well,randyminer here`s the tips:
1.pulling air out(suck)of HS most of times is less noisy but not as effective as blowing to.
2.the case fan you use must suck the air out of case and must be installed at the rear end of case under the power supply(near the HSF-this is the exhaust fan).Use another 8-10cm fan to blow installed at the front.
3.don`t use the case fan power supply connectors as you have more voltage drop in mobo and more moving electrons through mobo(more signal noise/crosstalk),use the IDE +12Vsupply(yel=12V black=ground) instead.
4.remove all expation brackets and place drilled(there are some pretty stuff) 5.25" covers.
5.use a good power supply(300W is recomended)
6.keep all wires away from components(match all wires carring voltage together and shielded) and run the IDE cables in a way so they don`t bock air to go to HSF.
7.examine the bottom of HS and see if it has scratches.plane it with 800 sandpaper on a glass surface using "8" style of move(a thinner bottom gets heat more fastly but fins always must be thinner)
8.use thermal compound(not a very dry type) at whole surface of cpu but level it so there`s a thin layer on cpu.Apply very little(just a thin film) on HS too.
9.bend the clip a little(at both ends-not the edges) to apply more force on HS.
10. you need more than a 26CFM HS fan(which is already noisy) to obtain a high speed
11.MOST important thing is that the HS makes a perfect contact on whole area of cpu`s core.
12.DON`T use the 3.6V VIO setting as it will give you extra troubles.
13.remove "greenie" and put thermal compound.
14.147-155 fsb doesn`t make trouble to PCI/AGP,so get your attention to cpu and memory(always try 133:100 first)
15.check with MBM5 the Vcore 0 and 1 and see if you have a huge drop comparing the cpu idling and in full load.Heat makes electrons to move more slowly.
16.if you do the wire trick make sure that the wire must can transfer the current and makes a good contact on pins
HEAT,HEAT,HEAT......the blocking force to fly.
These are details that others don`t take in mind and get to Ghz land but you can`t be always lucky!

I advice you, not to go for a peltier cooling as it`s better to change the cpu if you don`t get what others get with same cpu`s and aircooling.Peltier cooling is very demanding and is suggested for a very overclockable cpu(I think yours is fine)
600E SL3NL(cA2) Malay @1008 1.95V -6C 11C loads winMe
@990 1.90V -6C 11C 100% stable
Sorry about my English.

[jian]

The reason why your cpu won't cold boot at 1000 is probably because the voltage required to run it at that speed is not being supplied at the time you switch on.

In other words, the motherboard can only supply the voltage for booting at 973.

The only thing you can really do is either 1) do the wire trick, 2) before you shutdown, return the clockspeed back to 973.

[patentman]

Randyminer:
Here some facts:
Same cpu as above hits:
@840 1.65V 38C cold boots
@894 1.85V 38C
@948 1.75V -6C 18C COLD BOOTS
@990 1.90V -6C 18C COLD BOOTS when the cooling starts 2mins before power on
@1008 1.95V -6 and at 11C gives errors
cCO core(stepping 1 cpu`s) can operate at higher temps and cold boots more easily than cA2`s or cB0`s.

Don`t mistake what bios says when you cold boot and gets you to safe operation.You must see in bios power menu/hardware monitor the Vcore voltage not the setting you apply at advance menu

[rdmpe]

Jian: I understand that the cold boot is only applying 1.7vcore during the post. All other post data I presented were after warm reboots. What the post data tells me is that if I do the wire trick for 1.80 default vcore, I should be able to cold boot to 143 fsb (1000 cpu), which is what I'd like to do.

Also, to get stable 3DMark run in win98se, I have to have about 0.10 to 0.15 more vcore. So to get a stable 1GHz, I will have to run my machine with wire trick to 1.80 minimum, and bios set to 1.90 or 1.95.

A user recently posted a picture of a socket 370 adapter that allows vid pin on/off without the wire trick. I am looking for a retailer who sells these. No luck yet.

Patentman: Thank you for all the temperature related tips. Excellent advice.
1) I will try reversing the fan and compare both ways, and post results along with ambient. Also going to look at a few different vcore/fsb for temperature comparison.
2/4/6) My case cooling is as follows.
Mid tower case.
120mm intake fan bottom front (cfm unknown, but good).
3x30mm exhaust at top front drive bay
80mm exhaust top back from psu
80mm (+/-) vent in top side for more hot air exhaust (airflow is always out at this vent)
I feel like I get quite a bit of fresh air flow thru my case. Cables are tucked away and ide/fdd cables folded over.
3) I will take the cpu fan off the mobo header (only one I was using), but I need an adaptor first.
5) My psu is 245 watts. MBM reports my 12 volt falling to about 11.3 (can't remember oif + or -). CPU voltage drops around 0.02 or so when full load is applied. I never realized that this would be directly related to heat. Is that true?
7/8/11) The bottom of the alpha was very smooth. I applied a very thin layer of thermal compound to hs and cpu with a razor blade. It was silicon based, not arctic silver type. I think it's on straight. Came with little foam pads to help keep it flat during installation.
9) The hsf was very difficult / scary to get on, it is fitting very tight!!!
10) Will consider a delta maybe, but the noise is an issue.
12) Wasn't planning on trying that vio.
13) I have a little tennmax fan that fit on my p2b-f, doesn't fit on cusl2-c. May sell it and get new one... Have to pull the mobo out to get the greenie off, PIA but I may do it.
14) All my posts shown earlier were with very slow mem settings. Posts still ok with fast mem settings except had to go to 7/9 above 134 fsb or so.
15) What would you say is a "huge drop"? I think it drops about 0.02 to 0.03 volts, will look at this more tho.

Not even tempted to deal with a peltier, I barely find time to deal with this easy stuff.

Thanks again for your tips, and your english is perfectly understandable!


[Edited by randyminer on 02-13-2001 at 01:00 PM]

[garnet_abx]

randyminer, I've been reading these posts and trying to come up with things that are different between my system and yours. What allows my 700 cbo to operate at higher speeds than your cco? The fact is the cco is suppose to be a better chip. Here's what I see:
My power supply is an Enermax 430, which is certainly better than your 245 watt.
I have a full size tower which gives a little more breathing room.
I have 5 - 80mm fans. Three are exhaust (2 of which are in the power supply). 1 intake and 1 exhaust run off the mobo headers.
I used arctic silver paste.
I think my cpu fan is a 27cfm YSTeck. Sucking.
HS is Alpha pal35.

I've said this before, but can cold boot at 1029, vcore 1.8. I haven't tried any higher.