"I don't need anti virus software", says user.

[proFeign]

Originally Posted by 3 of 7

You have a gig of memory, what are you saving it for?
BTW, If I'm in your address book....Please remove me

[wallijonn]

I use yahoo mail and fastmail, so viruses are scanned for and SPAM is almost non-existant.

But programs like McAfee also do real time scanning for worms. So don't think that anti-virus programs are only for emails. If someone throws in a floppy, CDR or DVDR and it is infected the anti-virus program should check it before allowing a program to be executed or copied to your hard drive. So even if you do not have a internet connection you can still get a virus.

[ChevyBlazerBoy]

Wow, When i initially posted this thread I figured that most ABXers were smart enough to run AV. I figured that it was almost implied here.

It seems that the census is that AV is a waste a system memory. This is totally not true. The funny thing is that the people who say that AV is a "waste of memory" are usually running MS Visual Styles that use over 30K of memory. I see not difference in performance on my PC by disabling AV. I run Trend Micro IS 2004.

I just can't see why anybody would choose not to run AV. It is a scary thing these days to go without AV. Especially with identity theft and such at an all time high. For those of you that don't run Anti Virus I ask, "Do you lock your doors at night?", "Do you leave the keys in your car when you are not around?"

Why not be consistent with your security choices? Tell me you feel safe leaving your door unlocked? Attackers don't just attack on the spot...they watch, wait, and listen to your every move and then make the attack at the most ideal time. The ideal time for people without AV or a firewall is anytime. You are much more likely to receive an attack.

You are one wrong keystroke away from becoming a victim...

Be smart in life.

[proFeign]

Originally Posted by wallijonn

I use yahoo mail and fastmail, so viruses are scanned for and SPAM is almost non-existant.

But programs like McAfee also do real time scanning for worms. So don't think that anti-virus programs are only for emails. If someone throws in a floppy, CDR or DVDR and it is infected the anti-virus program should check it before allowing a program to be executed or copied to your hard drive. So even if you do not have a internet connection you can still get a virus.

Anyway, certainly e-mail is only the very tip of the protection iceberg, but for me it's pretty much my entire exposure. I got a virus via bittorrent a few weeks ago (I mean it downloaded; I haven't executed one since one time in 1994-1995) but this is a first. Certainly anyone using file sharing of any kind would be using AV, right???

Even if you don't think you need AV, if you have broadband you've thrown your doors open for intrusions if you don't have some kind of firewall at least...

[proFeign]

Originally Posted by ChevyBlazerBoy

This person I know ...who shall remain unknown...stated that he had no use for anti virus because he never had any trouble before.

See Attached Photo.

That HAS to be some kind of record. I can't believe you were able to use that machine at all.

[wallijonn]

ProFeign,

I didn't address that to anyone in particular.

When I had dial-up and rebuilt my W2KP machine I never was able to download and install SP4. It was hacked and infected. I wanted to buy a mem stick, go to the library and use their high speed cable connection and save the 128B SP but they turned off their USB ports because of music sharing and possible virus infections.

Yeah, I still use floppies - boot, memtest86, bios updates & recovery, linux, drivers, bookmarks, documents, pics, etc. I also use CDRWs.

[proFeign]

Originally Posted by wallijonn

Yeah, I still use floppies - boot, memtest86, bios updates & recovery, linux, drivers, bookmarks, documents, pics, etc. I also use CDRWs.

Cool. I use floppies for BIOS/memtest stuff like that. What I meant was I'm not really exposed to data that I did not create via floppies.

It gave me a chance to clarify what I wanted to say, at least

[Deer Slayer]

Their mail server had virus protection, and the rest of the viruses are the result of doing something stupid. I still wouldn't have it even if my ISP didn't scan it, you know when it's a virus e-mail, in fact I didn't have any e-mail protection for a while. Avoiding viruses is common sense, not relying on some program that doesn't catch them most of the time. Virus protection is a false sense of security. E-mail protection is good, but I can do without it. You shouldn't count on it to find all the viruses, you're just asking to get hosed if you do. I don't have any virus protection on my laptop or firewall, except for sp2. It got hosed pretty bad the other day, but that's because I let dumbarses use it. If I use it it doesn't pick up anything, there's no protection from stupidity.

[proFeign]

Originally Posted by Deer Slayer

Their mail server had virus protection, and the rest of the viruses are the result of doing something stupid. I still wouldn't have it even if my ISP didn't scan it, you know when it's a virus e-mail, in fact I didn't have any e-mail protection for a while. Avoiding viruses is common sense, not relying on some program that doesn't catch them most of the time. Virus protection is a false sense of security. E-mail protection is good, but I can do without it. You shouldn't count on it to find all the viruses, you're just asking to get hosed if you do. I don't have any virus protection on my laptop or firewall, except for sp2. It got hosed pretty bad the other day, but that's because I let dumbarses use it. If I use it it doesn't pick up anything, there's no protection from stupidity.

It's not worth half and hour of your time to install AVG Free so your system doesn't get hosed again? I have to believe that no matter how dumb this particular dumbarse was, he/she would not have persisted in executing if they got a "VIRUS!" warning...

[grsamf]

Originally Posted by Deer Slayer

......Virus protection is a false sense of security......there's no protection from stupidity.

True, anyone who believes that AV, firewalls, adware blockers, etc., make a system completely secure and saves them from exercising caution does have a false sense of security. This reminds me of the recent thread about 4-wheel drive versus rear wheel in the snow and the discussion about snow tires, ABS, and other safety features often taking the place of commone sense. Winter safety features in cars are not intended to replace common sense, but to supplement it. Likewise, security measures should not take the place of common sense in surfing, e-mails and other online activity. Such measures are, however, an important line of defense. Certainly, they are not perfect, but that is often a function of dedicated baddies keeping a step ahead of the game.

IMHO, all the talk about not needing the protection if one uses caution misses the point that one is not being cautious at all by declining to use AV, firewall, etc. It only takes one time to get hosed and as PCB pointed out, even if you don't care about losing data, some of the little nasties can hose your hardware, too.

This thread distesses me.

[hansmas]

Of course one has to think before pushing the buttons on the computer even if one has security software/hardware.


What irritates me are two problem categories:

People that does not have any antivirus/firewall protection.

People that does not care about learning anything whatsoever about computer security, therefore making silly mistakes, breaching security.

If those two problem categories were eliminated the web would be very much more secure today. Those two categories makes the net more vulnerable, even exposing others to attacks.

Recommended reading for anyone that thinks no security software/hardware is needed:

Hacking Exposed, by Stuart McClure, Joel Scambray and George Kurtz.

[PCBruiser]

Originally Posted by grsamf

This thread distesses me.

I completely agree grsamf, it distresses me as well when security "aware" individuals simply say "can't happen to me" and advise others to ignore the use of security hardware/software, or critical parts of a properly designed defense from the nasties out there. After all the time some of us have spent trying to educate the members here how to protect themselves properly, at reasonably minimal cost, it is hard for me to understand just why some members here continue to deny the need for adequate protection.

While it is up to each of us to decide for ourselves just what protection we are willing to invest in, it is wrong for those who would go naked to advise others to do so as well. Debating that subject only gives credence to their arguments, which turns the subject from one of necessity to one of opinion for those who are not properly aware of the need for adequate protection. And to those people, I have one clear message - you need it! Not a debatable issue, folks, that's the truth. There are far too many ways to compromise an unprotected or partially unprotected system, and they are all out there, wandering the Internet, just waiting for a naive victim to burn.

[KingTermite]

Randomly surfing the internet without AV and/or firewall is like randomly having sex without a condom.

And just like they sometimes say "having sex with somebody is like having sex with every person they have had sex with in the past" is also similar. Any website (even big reputable ones) can have a virus if they were not secure enough and/or hacked.

You could potentially get a virus even from "normal" websites. Hell even ABXZone (in theory) would be hacked and end up having a virus.

[grsamf]

Originally Posted by PCBruiser

.....After all the time some of us have spent trying to educate the members here how to protect themselves properly, at reasonably minimal cost, it is hard for me to understand just why some members here continue to deny the need for adequate protection..........

I hope that the discussion here will not discourage you and others from continuing your efforts, although I could understand a "Geez, what's the use?" response.

I posted over in your front page poll the other day that I thought the poll was inaccurate because it appeared a high percentage of people were not using AV, firewalls, etc. I attributed that to people not realizing they could make multiple choices. This thread leads me to two conclusions: (1) I was wrong about why the poll results are showing what they do and (2) some people are not as savvy as I thought.

[PCBruiser]

Originally Posted by grsamf

I hope that the discussion here will not discourage you and others from continuing your efforts, although I could understand a "Geez, what's the use?" response.

Don't worry about that, I certainly will continue to do my best to continue to post on this subject. Having been burned badly some years ago by identity theft when I knew very little about this subject, it is important to me personally to try to prevent others from going through the hassle I went through. Once you are burned like that, you never forget, and you do spend time learning about what it takes to properly protect yourself. That is but one reason why I feel so strongly that everyone should have a well designed and complete security suite protecting their systems.