My head is spinning...need headphone help

[Dr.GreenThumb]

ok so heres the deal...
i currently own an old pair of sony headphones from about 8 years ago and desperately need a new pair.

I currently have an audigy 2 zs platinum pro sound card in my system and would like to avoid having to buy an external headphone amp, but i will if i have to.

so far im leaning towards the grado sr-225's or 125's (low impedence, supra aural), but also like the kg 271's (ive heard that the 271's are better for studio work??)

sennheiser's (hd580) and beyerdynamics (dtx900, dt660, or dt 990 pro) also look great but Im just so damn confused with it all
ive looked around head-fi.org and the forums here but i just feel more confused
its so hard to decide what to buy without being able to test for yourself

so what do u guys think, i know there are a bunch of headphone threads and im sorry for making a new one, but im trying to be rather specific:
headphones for my computer (audigy 2), $250 (give or take a few), quality bass is important to me, and will be used only for gaming, movies, and music...no professional or studio work

if it turns out that 250 is too much money (this is going to be a christmas gift) than im prolly going to end up buying a lower price set of grados cuz ive read that they are the best low priced cans (good idea?)

THANKS ALOT FOR ANY HELP

[PCBruiser]

Grado's for sure. I have a pair of the 325i and my son has a pair of the 60s. They are both outstanding. You won't be able to tell much difference between their models unless you listen to them side by side. The 225's are just slightly less lively than the 325i sound, and some find the 325i a little too brilliant anyway. Me, I like them. In any case, you could even consider the 60s and you wouldn't go wrong or be sorry about in the least. For $70 they are without doubt an outstanding bargain. But, if you want better, then the 225s will be great.

Now, I can easily run my 325i from an iPod Mini and from an XMRadio portable. It happens that I do have an Airhead amp, but it isn't necessary to power the cans at all. What it does do is make the sound a little more subtle and clear with a little more punch at the same volume levels, not that the Grado's really need that anyway.

The effect of the Grado sound has been described as not sitting right in front of the musicians in the audience, but rather it is like sitting in their laps. That's how close you feel with them. No other brand even comes close to duplicating that sensation except possibly Etymotics, which is a totally different kind of experience again.

BTW, I also have a pair of Senn 600 cans, and the Grado 60 blows them away IMHO. They aren't even in the same ball park as the 325i are.

[Dr.GreenThumb]

thx for the reply, i am definitely considering the grados from what ive read and this jsut further influences my decision in that direction.

and with regards to the sound effect, that is what i figured considering they are supra aural

thx for mentioning that you have tried other headphones...i try to take recomendations from people that only had experience with what they are recommending, with a grain of salt

[PCBruiser]

Originally Posted by Dr.GreenThumb

with regards to the sound effect, that is what i figured considering they are supra aural

Actually that isn't the most important part of the design. That makes a subtle difference. The fundimental reason they sound so good is that Grado is the only company out there that has really successfully integrated the open air design as a fundamental part of the sound. If you get a pair, regardless of model, or you can find some place to listen to them, just cover the ear pieces with your hands and watch what happens to the sound. It's almost totally gone. Their design is essential to their sound. It isn't there for looks or comfort, it is there for the sound qualities it adds.

Also one other very important thing. All Grado's sound terrible until they start to break in - out of kilter and unbalanced. Do yourself a favor and run them for about 40 hours on a music source at medium volume before you listen to them for the first time. Or listen to them uncritically for the first couple of hours, go away, and then come back, and you will be amazed by how much they require and benefit from a good breaking in.

[Shadow_419]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I've never understood why any speaker would need to be "broken-in". I mean, running a speaker for an extended period of time would at most soften the compliance of the surround material. If this is the purpose of break-in time, why not design the speaker with a more complient surround in the first place? I don't know, just my two cents...
If I don't make any sense, just show me the light.

[PCBruiser]

You are right, Shadow, that's exactly what it does. But, that is an unavoidable process, and if you made the material more complient to start with, it would still break in and then become too complient after it did. That's the issue. You want it to sound exactly right after it breaks in. That's a most reasonable question.

[Dr.GreenThumb]

another question...
is it worth spending $200+ dollars on headphones since they are going to be used with my computer (audigy 2) and not high quality home stereo or studio equipment?

[PCBruiser]

Originally Posted by Dr.GreenThumb

another question...
is it worth spending $200+ dollars on headphones since they are going to be used with my computer (audigy 2) and not high quality home stereo or studio equipment?

Another very good question.

Answer, it depends on your hearing and how it "feels". The Audigy series of audio cards actually do a very good job of audio reproduction. And, their sound is actually pretty good on almost any standard - comparable in many ways to "high quality home stereo or studio equipment". What they don't do is produce a highly amplified signal. So, relatively low impedence, but good to excellent quality sound devices (speaklers and headphones), can really do well with the output from an Audigy card generally. If they are high impedence or require a lot of power then they will be as good as the signal amplifier lets them be.

I know that some real stereo enthusiasts will disagree, but the difference between good and truly excellent is narrowing these days. And, it takes a very educated, sensitive and preceiptive "ear" to hear the true reproductive difference between various high quality hardware - whether "high quality home stereo or studio equipment" or computer reproduction. In fact, the gap between the technologies is rapidly disappearing, and soon will be gone entirely IMHO.

The real issue is how you hear, and how those sound qualities translate into any particular hardware. Suppose you are a professional musician, a classical violinist - someone like Itzak Perlman. You own and play a Stradivarious. Your ear - perfect pitch. Yes, you will notice the subtle differences. For the normal listener, like you and me, a good quality device will produce more sound quality then we can actually distinguish between. That's not to say that some people with highly trained ears, won't be able to tell, but in many double blind tests that have been run, it is far harder to tell the difference than the "experts" would really like it to be. Really, if you go for quality, price is not the point, how it sounds to YOU is the real issue. Pick the sound that appeals to your senses and you can't go wrong.

In the instant case, the question is whether to go Grado or something else. The Grado sound is unique. Most people experiencing it for the first time ask where has this been hidden all this time. But, in truth, the sound is a unique sound - much richer than most. Senns tend to be flatter - in some ways more "accurate" in their reproduction. On the other hand the Grados add their own uniqueness to the sound, producing a rich, clear vibrancy to what you hear. If you really want "studio" sound - 100% what the signal recorded, than Grado is probably not the right way to go. Having said that, if you want absolute clarity and a very rich and vibrant coloration to the sound, then you will love them.

Personally, my recommendation is to go with the Grado 60 or 80 (~$70 or $100 respectively) and not make a big investment unless you know you love the way they sound. You won't dispute the value of either once you have heard them. Then as your ear becomes more "educated" if you want more (and don't we all), upgrade to one of their high end series. That way, your downside is limited, and you can make a more educated decision in the future. And, don't get me wrong, the 60s are absolutey great cans on their own - they can hold their own with almost any of the other top rated ones out there.

[Dr.GreenThumb]

thanks for all your help, its greatly appreciated
with everythging in mind i think ive decided on the grados...i will keep reading more online but i think this is the way im going to go

thanks again