Z-5500 popping issues

[Vatt]

Please read the letter below and give us your comments.

Shielding issues Logitech Audio systems resulting in Popping and Humming sound.

Hello,

We, members of the forum Gathering of Tweakers, started a topic in the Netherlands due to an overwhelming number of complaints concerning noise issues regarding Logitech Audio Systems.
This involves, in particular, the Z-5500 and X-530 speaker set, but also other Logitech audio models suffer from this issue.

Let us first explain what the problems are about. There are 3 main issues:

1. "Popping" noises from the speaker system. When light switches, blenders, fridges or other electrical appliances are switched on or off, a very loud and disturbing "popping" noise is generated in the audio systems.
Sometimes the volume of this “pop” is at such a loud level, that you do not want to be in the same room when it occurs.

2. An irritating permanent ‘humming noise’ coming from the subwoofer.

3. And in some occasions the Z-5500 picks up radio signals that can be heard. And that without any other appliances connected.

Since most people do not realize that the problems are part of their Logitech speaker system, they usually blame their indoor electrical system or other electrical appliances.
This idea was (and still is) stimulated by the things mentioned in the customer support section on Logitech's website.
As a result, many people are buying EMI filters, which of course do not provide a solution.

Some members have started the initiative and contacted Logitech about these issues in order to solve the problems.
At first, Logitech even denied that a problem existed which affected their speaker systems.
However, a few members, who are qualified engineers, did investigate the Z-5500 and some other audio models and figured out exactly what is causing the noise problems.
With some minor modifications they managed to solve almost completely the noise issues.

It became very clear that the noise problem is a result of a design error and affects not only the Z-5500 and the X-530, but also other Logitech audio models.
There is no doubt that the Logitech design staff has repeatedly underestimated the importance of a proper shielding of the respective audio units.
May we point out that it is common knowledge that a proper shielding of audio equipment is essential, in order to avoid noise problems.

However, it took an incredible 5 months for Logitech to accept this fact.
Due to our efforts Logitech was not able to deny any longer that a serious problem exists regarding their audio units.
Since Logitech showed no initiative at all to change their FAQ section, we had to press hard for Logitech to do so!
As a result the FAQ were somewhat altered and a refund policy, concerning the Z-5500 as well as the X-530, is offered.

May we draw your attention to the fact that Logitech is still talking about a "production error". However, the noise problems are definitely a result of a design error!

Now, 8 months later, after many emails, phone calls, meetings, prototype testing and even some visits of members of Logitech’s Technical staff (to test some experimental units at the homes of members), we feel that all our efforts were in vain.
There are hardly any improvements at all, we all still have a defective audio unit.
Nothing constructive has been undertaken by Logitech in order to solve the design issues!
We feel that Logitech has been buying time in order for us to lose interest and to prevent us from going public with this issue.

What strikes us most, is that Logitech is still selling their audio products worldwide, while realizing very well that these products suffer from a design issue.
We feel that selling a product with a defect, to customers who trust Logitech to provide a product which will perform according to the things mentioned in the sales literature, is far from fair practise.

Last but not least, Logitech is trying to make us believe that the noise (popping) problem is very localized and only concerns The Netherlands and Belgium.
However, this is a far cry from the reality.
By using Google it is not very hard to find many, many, forums (worldwide) that are related to this “popping" problem.

Reason why we feel we have to share this information with other (potential) Logitech customers worldwide, bearing in mind that this action will make Logitech seriously consider to take proper and constructive action in order to solve these design issues.


Best regards,

The Forum members

Representatives:

BvB
RV
MvH
DW
RC

If you have the problem too, we would be happy if you send us a E-mail: plopjesprobleem@xs4all.nl

[SubZero]

I can only say this entire story is absolutely true. I've been active in that particular forum and have received a modified Z-5500 set which should have eliminated the humming and plopping sound.

My old Z-5500 was giving a hard humming noise whenever it was turned on. The 2nd set Logitech sent me was supposed to elimitate all problems. Not so unfortunately.

We have been through hell and back with Logitech asking them to take this problem seriously. I would very much appreciate it if other ABX'ers would take a close look at this starting post and give their input on it!

Logitech sets have problems. Major problems. However, Logitech is constantly denying it and saying it very small scale. Not so. Just google and see how many threads pop up. We are taking a formal stance against Logitech with this action. We are posting this info on every major forum outthere in the hope that Logitech will come to their senses.

We have some pretty technical guys particpating at this dutch forum. Guys who have offered Logitech simple and straigtforward sollutions to this problem. But Logitech is blind and deaf to this sollution. They are denying it and saying it is only happening with a very, very limited amount of users.

I'm so fed up with Logitech that my 10+ products bought from them will be the last 10+ products I ever got from them. I have recommended Logitech to a lot of people at work, to whom I have an advisory function. Not anymore.

Logitech: wake up!!!!!!!!

BTW: if anyone can read dutch, they can follow the entire 1000+ posts threads overhere:

http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/...ages/1140621/0

If anyone needs more information or wants to share thoughts about this, drop me a PM!

[Gorganzola]

I remember reading about your dealings with this quite some time ago. It swayed me from buying Logitech speakers. In addition, after reading the amount of grief they have been putting you guys through, I won't be buying any more of their products soon. I have two mice from them that work but annoy me to no end as a result of the way their drivers behave because you must install them from CD first. Which means you can't throw away the CD if you ever want to use the advanced features of your mouse.

No more Logitech for me until I see signs of their improving their behaviour and listening to the consumer. I think they don't want to do anything because if they do, they will have to shell out a lot of money to fix the issue.

I don't own the affected speakers, but I can go without buying any of their products until they fix the issue and own up to a proper resolution.

[SubZero]

Hey buddy!!

Yeah... Logitech has really disspointed me, and a whole big pile of dutch/belgian users.

Reading around the internet the plopping issue isn't isolated to our country alone. I wish Logitech would realize that. I have bought a big pile of Logitech products in the past ranging from a lot of mice, remote control, webcam, speakers, etc...

I'm going shopping somewhere else from now on. I would really like other member's input though.

The problem can be easily fixed by improving the isolation of the control pod but Logitech isn't willing to do that it seems. Instead they keep us in dark on their motivations to not do this

[JaGWiRE_abx]

Haven't read much of this thread, but mine hum even when off (as longa s they are plugged in.)

Needless to say, I'm selling them and for the same price I sell them I am picking up a pair of wharfedale diamond 9.1's. Screw these shitty computer "htib" speakers.

Also, I have invested in a several hudnred dollar power conditioner, and needless to say power is not the problem, it is the speakers causing pops and humming noises.

I still love my logitech g15 keyboard, g5 mouse, and harmony 520 universal remote though.

[SubZero]

Jag, would you please send an e-mail to the e-mail address mentioned in the first post?

We are trying to get input from people all over the world trying to make Logitech realize they cannot get away with this!

[JaGWiRE_abx]

Originally Posted by SubZero

Jag, would you please send an e-mail to the e-mail address mentioned in the first post?

We are trying to get input from people all over the world trying to make Logitech realize they cannot get away with this!

I'll do so later.

Listen though, I have given up on these, or what I like to call them, **** speakers. Pardon my language, but I have gotten into this Hi-Fi hobby, and maybe I'm a snob now, but these speakers are utter crap. Maybe for gaming they are good, but the sound quality outputted does not meet my standards anymore, and most of the guys on my new home (head-fi) laugh when they even hear the model name Z-5500. In all respect, these are cheap little satielle speakers with a big subwoofer that obviously wasn't designed properly.

Logitech realises that they can fool the average consumer. If you are in a room with an computer on per say and other things, and you hook up your speaker system quickly, other ambient noises may fool you into thinking the hum was already there. I have began to learn that many consumer products output annoying frequencies. Take for example many CRT televisions which output a sound frequency somewhere in the 15-16 khz range. Now most people might not realise this (although they can hear it, it probably blends in with everything else due to their brain), is very annoying to me. My black lights also output an frequency somewhere around there which ****** me the hell off. Now after an hour or two it blends in, and older folks might not even be able to hear this frequency. Luckily, I am a child who has a very broad frequency range, and my ears have not been pierced yet.

Needless to say, I am investing in a pair of bookshelf speakers. I urge everybody who isn't big into gaming and wants good sound to do the same. Mixing stereo recordings (which is mostly all cds) into 5.1 is a bad idea, and imo sounds awful. I advise everybody to sell their z-5500s unless they do a lot of gaming, and hop on audiogon.com and buy a decent pair of bookshelf speakers and pick up a vintage reciever or something. You could probably get some bookshelf speakers for like $200, find an vintage reciever for $50, and some interconnects / speaker wire to hook everything up for maybe another $50 max. You'de get much better sound then what you get from these Logitechs, and you'de free up a lot of space (bloody huge *** subwoofer ****** me off with it's hum and the 5 speakers.)

Anyway, I bought a Belkin Pf60 power conditioner thinking (and being advised here probably like half a year to a year back) that it would resolve these problems. It did not, and I am not angry as it does not hurt my setup, looks cool and protects my gear (and I got a great price on it), but I am now confident that Logitech just has a flawed system. What can I say though, this system is more a less a HTIB. Instead of an full fledged reciever, it has some (most likely) crappy DACS in a small ugly box with an infrared reciever for a remote (which sucks btw) and some DD/DTS support which isn't all that great, although my speakers are not arranged for good surround. If you want 5.1, go buy a proper system, you can probably get an half decent setup for the same price as MSRP of the 5500's and get something much better.

[SubZero]

For general gaming purposes the Z-5500's are more than sufficient for me. They do produce good sound (for gaming) but all of that is worth nothing with the plopping sound. I have a high quality receiver and speakers in my living room so I'm watching movies and listening sound there. They blow the Z-500 out of the water obviously. My sub alone is far more expensive than the entire Z-500.

There are alternatives sure as it comes to the Z-5500 all-in-on 5.1 sets... Unfortunately not much more than a handful which makes me believe that is one of the reasons Logitech thinks they can get away with this. Remeber, prices are different overhere than in the US.

All the more frustrating and thus the reason we want users from all over the planet to comment on this.

[JaGWiRE_abx]

Originally Posted by SubZero

For general gaming purposes the Z-5500's are more than sufficient for me. They do produce good sound (for gaming) but all of that is worth nothing with the plopping sound. I have a high quality receiver and speakers in my living room so I'm watching movies and listening sound there. They blow the Z-500 out of the water obviously. My sub alone is far more expensive than the entire Z-500.

There are alternatives sure as it comes to the Z-5500 all-in-on 5.1 sets... Unfortunately not much more than a handful which makes me believe that is one of the reasons Logitech thinks they can get away with this. Remeber, prices are different overhere than in the US.

All the more frustrating and thus the reason we want users from all over the planet to comment on this.

Your right. Americans and Canadians are spoiled with audiogon. I can only imagine how harsh it must be for you guys.

For gaming they indoubtly are not bad, especially if your in a space limited room with a bad layout for full blown surround.

I agree with you though. It's the point. My new source is double-tripple the cost of what I'm selling my 5500's for, but I don't care, I'm ****** that I spent money on an product that was flawed and the manufacter could have cared less. Even though I am still going to write them, they should be happy I'm dumping them, or else they'de have one real super nasty e-mail coming to them.

PS, I'm getting sick of electronics. I'm moving onto some new hobbies. Electronics are too frusterating. I think I'm going to buy an expensive watch or something instead of some new Dell monitor that's just going to get outdated in like a year and **** me off with some new issue.

[Vatt]

Logitech has responded to plopjesprobleem@xs4all.nl


See below:

Logitech Europe S.A.
Z.I. Moulin du Choc D
CH-1122 Romanel-sur-Morges
Switzerland

Friday, 4th August 2006

Mr. B
XXX
The Netherlands


Dear Mr. B.

I am writing to you in my capacity as Vice President Sales and Marketing and General Manager for Logitech in Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

I have been paying close attention to the ongoing issue regarding the popping noise you and some other customers experience with our Z-5500 speakers. I had hoped to discuss this matter in person, so was disappointed that you declined my offer to visit. I am writing to you instead to outline some of the points I would have made on my visit. I know you and your associate, Mr. R.C, have written to our chairman, D.B. Please also accept this letter as an answer to the points you have raised with him.

First, let me say that I understand your frustration as one of Logitech’s customers who have experienced this popping issue. I’d like to take this opportunity to apologize once again to you and all our customers who are affected.

In your communications to us, you make three very important claims: 1) that the Z-5500 popping issue is the result of a “design defect”, 2) that this “design defect” affects all Logitech’s speaker models, and 3) that this issue affects large numbers of Logitech’s customers worldwide. Logitech has assured you many times already that these claims are not true. I would like to add to that my personal assurance on all three points:

1) Logitech has reviewed its data across its speaker lines once more. All evidence shows that currently less than 1% of our European customer base has reported the popping issue. This figure varies on a country by country basis, but it indicates that an average of 99% of our customers are satisfied with their speakers. It is true that some speakers in a limited number of environments are susceptible to popping. However, it is also true that some speakers which emit
popping noises in one environment function properly when they are moved to another. This indicates that the popping issue is environmentally dependent, creating an unsatisfactory customer experience in a very limited number of environments.

2) Every speaker model’s design is unique. While our records indicate that less than 1% of our European customer base has experienced the popping issue in the Z-5500, far fewer customers of other Logitech speaker models have experienced the issue – a strong indication that the issue is not repeated throughout other speaker models.

3) As I have indicated, only a small percentage of our total European customer base for the Z-5500 has reported the issue to us and an even smaller set of customers for any other speaker model has reported the issue. We have highlighted the issue publicly on our European website, with a clear FAQ in different local languages. The English language version can be found under the speaker section here: http://logitech-en-emea.custhelp.com
Under normal circumstances, such a limited issue would be resolved with a refund. Nevertheless, Logitech is committed to good customer service and we did not want this matter to be an exception.

As you know, we pulled a number of our engineers off new product development projects to undertake a thorough investigation of the Z-5500 issue. As part of this investigation, we temporarily stopped factory production of the Z-5500 speakers. We also organized a personal customer visit from our senior engineers based in the U.S. Within two weeks, we were able to offer a set of replacement speakers. When these proved unsatisfactory for some of our customers, we offered a longer-term solution to create a limited quantity of units specially designed and certified for those customers still affected. Logitech has considered all technical feedback sent to us by our customers throughout this process.

The customers who agreed to take up the offer of one of the limited quantity of units – you included – were offered the chance to test hand-modified prototypes of those units, which could then be certified and produced in greater quantities. Our own tests on these prototypes indicate we have found a solution, but because you and our other customers have shown such an interest in the technical details of this issue, it made sense to involve you in the testing process as well. This is just one example of the unprecedented insights you have had into our product.

I was disappointed to hear that you have chosen to stop the customer testing process and return these prototype units before giving us the results of your tests. I firmly believe that Logitech has taken exceptional steps to resolve the issue for you and the other customers experiencing it. Our efforts throughout have been genuine.

While we have to accept your personal decision to return the prototype units, we also have to consider our other customers who are waiting to see whether the units resolve the issue and can be certified. Logitech will therefore continue to work towards building the limited quantity of units as promised. We will also pursue the incorporation of speaker improvements into future production of the Z-5500 speaker product.

Finally, I’d like to say how much we appreciate the time and energy you and our other customers have devoted to this issue. I think your passionate response to the matter shows how loyal you have been to the company and our products to date. I hope that, when you read this letter, you will recognize that Logitech has made every effort to return that loyalty, taking the extra steps necessary to try and resolve this.

Yours sincerely

S.D.
Vice President Sales and Marketing, General Manager, Logitech EMEA

[JaGWiRE_abx]

What a load of BS. Just because 99% of average dumb consumers (who probably pick these speakers up at Bestbuy or something) don't report an issue, it doesn't mean it's not there. That's like scratching the back of your computer case or something and never realising becasue it's a small scratch and you never look at the back of your computer case. It doesn't change anything, it's still there, and maybe most people don't notice it, but it is still there regardless.

[SubZero]

His logic on the 99% is definitely flawed. Unfortunately we will never know for sure what the correct percentage is. More and more reason for other people who have these experiences to speak up and send an e-mail to the address mentioned in the first post.

I'm a little dissapointed about the lack of response by other ABX members. I'm sure we are not the only ones with a Z-5500 or similar Logitech speakers...

[Acid8000]

Are these issues unique to or particularly bad with Logitech? I've seen a fair amount of computer speakers that have similar issues (buzzing, popping) when plugged into any sound card.

[SubZero]

I cannot speak for other brands of speakers.

The Z-5500 is regarded as one of the best 5.1 based speakers systems for the PC with the pricetag that belongs to it.

A lot of people overhere are having more than just an occasional plop or hickup from these speakers. After a while a couple of techies professionaly tested the speakers and opened them up. It was clear that Logitech has made design errors with improper shielding of the control pod.

These shielding issues can be easily prevented at a low cost. Problem is that this will void the warranty. Logitech has made modifications to the Z-5500 which didn't solve the problems and without taking seriosuly the input from us.

Similar issues occur with other Logitech speakers but they seem less important because of the far lower price of these speakers.

When you buy the most expensive digital speakersset from Logitech you don't expect to be shocked regularly by big popping sounds.

Logitech knows how to fix the problems but they are hiding behind a curtain of ignorance it seems.

To be clear: this popping issues is not caused by improper grounding of sockets or whatever else they come up with. Turning the lights on shouldn't make these speakers give a loud popping sound but they do. The problem is shielding!!

[tm030614]

It’s hard that you guys are unable (because of the Dutch language) to read the forum on tweakers.net so you get a complete view of this case.
Then you were able to read how many effort and time we have put in this case to work on a structural base with Logitech towards a solution. There have bin a very extensive contact (emails, phone conversations and meetings) between us and Logitech. After 5 months we were able to make the Z-5500 unit complete problem free, Logitech is still, after 8 months, still not (willing) able to do so!

The changes Logitech has made for the Z-5500 are based on our advise but unfortunately Logitech is not willing to do something with our advise to ad some shielding and internal cable connection.

That Logitech has put a FAQ on there website is because we have ask for it and not because Logitech is gladly to inform the customers. They have only provide this FAQ in the EU region. America, Asia and Africa does not have this FAQ but the problems exist there to!

Logitech is telling us that the problem is small. The statistics they used are bases on customers contacting the customer support. We find that these statistics are not correct.
Most of the people that have contacted Logitech about this so called “popping problem” have done this AFTER reading our forum. Most people blame there indoor electrical system. Also Logitech has told, (until beginning of this year after we have set up the forum) that it is NOT a problem from the speakers but from the indoor electrical system. This is even told me when I first contacted the customer support. I took almost 5 moths before Logitech committed that there was a problem with the Z-5500 and X-530!

Please be aware that this is an issue related to the Z-5500. Other comparable speakers (like the Creative Desktop Theater 2500, Creative GigaWorks S750 and Altec Lansing MX5021) work just fine in the exact same circumstances! It has noting to do with a bad electrical network or bad cables.

tm030614 (topic starter on tweakers.net - GoT - and spokesman).