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zapionics<alt> 03-26-2012 06:00 PM

Cloud?
 
I seem to be in a "blonde" frame of mind today... Common terms are feeling strange to me... For example "cloud computing" - isn't this the same thing as the good old "client server" model?

I mean I get that the apps are delivered as a service to the dumbed-downed clients but what's the fundamental difference?

If its just that the "cloud" is the web instead of a private network (WAN or LAN) then I feel it's a very subtle difference...

If its because the clients are just the browser I equally feel so what? -that was always the ultimate aim of client-server i.e. a really lite client with the processing power and business logic engines residing on the big powerful server...
So what's the difference?

PeterT 03-26-2012 07:42 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> (Post 1503515)
I seem to be in a "blonde" frame of mind today... Common terms are feeling strange to me... For example "cloud computing" - isn't this the same thing as the good old "client server" model?

I mean I get that the apps are delivered as a service to the dumbed-downed clients but what's the fundamental difference?

If its just that the "cloud" is the web instead of a private network (WAN or LAN) then I feel it's a very subtle difference...

If its because the clients are just the browser I equally feel so what? -that was always the ultimate aim of client-server i.e. a really lite client with the processing power and business logic engines residing on the big powerful server...
So what's the difference?

You captured it here: ...the "cloud" is the web instead of a private network (WAN or LAN)...

zapionics<alt> 03-27-2012 09:32 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Well it just seems so trivial. It's just client server over the web.
The hype around "cloud computing" is driving me crazy.

WolfSoul 03-28-2012 06:50 AM

Re: Cloud?
 
Isn't cloud computing just synonym for online storage

zapionics<alt> 03-28-2012 05:08 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfSoul (Post 1503577)
Isn't cloud computing just synonym for online storage

I dk, I'm trying to define it but not getting much traction, despite the fact that every second IT article you read mentions it.
I get a fuzzy, blurry, concept of IT service over the web to the browser and don't understand at all how that is different to client server.

Maybe the terms are all misleading and we need something else.
What about that old term "distributed computing", what was wrong with that?
If the characteristics we're trying to capture are
1. Apps served by a server rather than the client
2 data (state) stored on the server rather than the client
3 links facilitated by the web
4 Configuration, service and support management executed on the server
5 common Internet protocols to be used
And so on, then I don't get it. This is all just client server, although client server can/does use other solutions than the web.

I suppose these terms evolve to have specific meaning in certain domains, but I can't find any formalized definitions at all.

I mean the conversation seems to run like this:
...What solution are you using?
...Oh, we use Cloud Computing!
...Great!

Wtf?

PeterT 03-28-2012 08:45 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> (Post 1503601)
...i mean the conversation seems to run like this:
...what solution are you using?
...oh, we use cloud computing!
...great!

Wtf?

:lol:

SpeedDMN 03-28-2012 08:59 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Yes "cloud" computing is basically a web based network and sounds innocuous enough on the face of it. I use a cloud type system in that my Android can access and stream media like videos and music from my home PC. Where it becomes a dirty word to me is when it has the potential to replace having your own data storage, operating system, everything. Basically turning your computer into an interface or dumb terminal. Computer use would be reduced to a utility like service such as water and electric. Even games could be streamed instead of playing off your own rig. Unfortunately this will be very attractive to most end users who just want to surf the web and pay for net flics. No more hardware or software upgrades needed. No more virus problems (unless someone could hack into what would be HUGE servers) no more losing pics and media. This would allow everything to be censored and spoon fed however the network owners want. I hope I never live to see the day.

PeterT 03-28-2012 09:18 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedDMN (Post 1503615)
...I hope I never live to see the day.

You and me both.

zapionics<alt> 03-29-2012 12:52 AM

Re: Cloud?
 
Thats the other thing that bothers me; computer use like a "utility" such as water or electricity. Thats nothing new to me, i already have it. Its called the internet.

SpeedDMN 03-29-2012 01:41 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> (Post 1503624)
Thats the other thing that bothers me; computer use like a "utility" such as water or electricity. Thats nothing new to me, i already have it. Its called the internet.

Yes but if your internet gets shut off you can still play your games, compose documents, watch your movies you have on your own HD's, play your own music etc. etc. If your "cloud" gets shut off you will probably get a screen that says "please contact your local total control provider. Remember, we are here to keep you safe by filtering all your content so you wont be troubled by any independent thought"

zapionics<alt> 03-29-2012 05:16 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedDMN (Post 1503637)
Yes but if your internet gets shut off you can...

Speed, I guess your issue is different to mine.
I want a clear precise definition of what "cloud computing" means and can't find it, while you have concerns about availability if a "cloud" service is down.

I don't see how we can even talk about your concerns until we have a definition.
I mean, what is it? Does the term belong to a particular corporation? Is it defined by any professional body? Is it being taught by any educational Institution?

Apart from every 2nd IT related blog rattling it off, is there actually any substance to it?

Or is it, as I suspect, simply a replacement term for "client server" or "distributed computing". Maybe it's just fallen out of all those architecture diagrams over the past 15 years that displayed a cloud in the middle with lots of spaghetti lines drawn.

I suppose "cloud computing" evokes something less techy and boring than "client server".
I dunno, forgive me for being asinine if I am, I just need to understand the subject under discussion before I can form a view on it, and find conflicting statements on the topic by other commentators to be annoying and just plain opportunistic.

SpeedDMN 03-29-2012 05:54 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
You have the basic definitions as best as anyone. Yes I do know what you mean by the term being thrown around as some arbitrary blanket expression. It's great for people who don't really know what a client server or distributed network really is. "cloud" is any easier term to sell to the masses then anything that sounds remotely technologically complicated. It's certainly nothing new. Colleges have been using them for years for example with a central hub and dumb terminals within the school. The reasons I get up in arms when I hear the term are because it is deceptive. The very reason the word was coined at all is for sheeple to be led by the nose with. It's such a nice fluffy cozy word isn't it? I guess in a nut shell the definition would be any computing that takes place outside of your own machine streamed through your own machine or terminal. Which yes, largely consist of the net. You can drop "cloud" whenever you want and you will never be wrong :lol:

Whammamoosha 01-29-2014 06:38 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
I know this topic is rather old, but since I "graduated" as an "EMC Proven Professional" (Cloud Infrastructure and Services, 92%) last November, here's my $0.02.

The main point is that Cloud goes heavy into virtualization (platform independence/migration), resource pooling (to avoid little/excessive resource reservation/partitioning) and service management (automated resource allocation/deallocation) in all three levels (compute, storage and network).

Economically, it's about turning CAPEX (capital expenditure) into OPEX (operational expenditure), except for Private Clouds. You don't buy, you rent (utility computing). Yet you may "own" a virtual infrastructure/platform/software reserved to you, and have a certain degree of control, depending on the Service Model. Both you and the service provider can see what's being "spent" and forecast expenditures.

For more info, see http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/ni.../SP800-145.pdf

zapionics<alt> 01-30-2014 09:12 PM

Re: Cloud?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Whammamoosha (Post 1523806)
I know this topic is rather old, but since I "graduated" as an "EMC Proven Professional" (Cloud Infrastructure and Services, 92%) last November, here's my $0.02.

The main point is that Cloud goes heavy into virtualization (platform independence/migration), resource pooling (to avoid little/excessive resource reservation/partitioning) and service management (automated resource allocation/deallocation) in all three levels (compute, storage and network).
...

Hey congrats on your new certification!
And thanks for having a go at answering this for me. So Virtualisation is not new. The disconnect for me was trying to understand why the term "cloud computing" came into existance in the first place when we already had names for all this technology and then, secondly, what exactly is the default model for a "cloud service" anyhow? since it seemed to be used in many different contexts.

I became used to this term now and when someone says "its a cloud based service" i just assume some part of the solution is being facilitated over the web... :wall:

Whammamoosha 01-31-2014 11:03 AM

Re: Cloud?
 
There's some general confusion since everything "over the network" that is fairly automated is referred to as "cloud". That's why NIST came into play.

For a service to be considered "cloud" and not "cloud-like" it must satisfy the five essential characteristics, use one of the three service models (or a shade of gray in between) and one of the four deployment models, as described in the NIST brochure I included in the previous post.

A real cloud service in general is far more manageable (in provisioning/releasing/forecasting capacity) and billing-friendly (measured service) than typical "cloudish" services, for both customers and providers.

A few examples are Amazon's EC2 (IaaS model - you rent virtualized HW and put everything else in), Google Apps (PaaS model - you rent a production platform with OS, libraries etc and lay your applications on top of that) or EMC Mozy (SaaS model - you rent a backup service).


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