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Old 03-26-2012, 06:00 PM   #1
zapionics<alt>
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Cloud?

I seem to be in a "blonde" frame of mind today... Common terms are feeling strange to me... For example "cloud computing" - isn't this the same thing as the good old "client server" model?

I mean I get that the apps are delivered as a service to the dumbed-downed clients but what's the fundamental difference?

If its just that the "cloud" is the web instead of a private network (WAN or LAN) then I feel it's a very subtle difference...

If its because the clients are just the browser I equally feel so what? -that was always the ultimate aim of client-server i.e. a really lite client with the processing power and business logic engines residing on the big powerful server...
So what's the difference?
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:42 PM   #2
PeterT
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Re: Cloud?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> View Post
I seem to be in a "blonde" frame of mind today... Common terms are feeling strange to me... For example "cloud computing" - isn't this the same thing as the good old "client server" model?

I mean I get that the apps are delivered as a service to the dumbed-downed clients but what's the fundamental difference?

If its just that the "cloud" is the web instead of a private network (WAN or LAN) then I feel it's a very subtle difference...

If its because the clients are just the browser I equally feel so what? -that was always the ultimate aim of client-server i.e. a really lite client with the processing power and business logic engines residing on the big powerful server...
So what's the difference?
You captured it here: ...the "cloud" is the web instead of a private network (WAN or LAN)...
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:32 PM   #3
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Re: Cloud?

Well it just seems so trivial. It's just client server over the web.
The hype around "cloud computing" is driving me crazy.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:50 AM   #4
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Re: Cloud?

Isn't cloud computing just synonym for online storage
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #5
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Re: Cloud?

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Originally Posted by WolfSoul View Post
Isn't cloud computing just synonym for online storage
I dk, I'm trying to define it but not getting much traction, despite the fact that every second IT article you read mentions it.
I get a fuzzy, blurry, concept of IT service over the web to the browser and don't understand at all how that is different to client server.

Maybe the terms are all misleading and we need something else.
What about that old term "distributed computing", what was wrong with that?
If the characteristics we're trying to capture are
1. Apps served by a server rather than the client
2 data (state) stored on the server rather than the client
3 links facilitated by the web
4 Configuration, service and support management executed on the server
5 common Internet protocols to be used
And so on, then I don't get it. This is all just client server, although client server can/does use other solutions than the web.

I suppose these terms evolve to have specific meaning in certain domains, but I can't find any formalized definitions at all.

I mean the conversation seems to run like this:
...What solution are you using?
...Oh, we use Cloud Computing!
...Great!

Wtf?
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:45 PM   #6
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Re: Cloud?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> View Post
...i mean the conversation seems to run like this:
...what solution are you using?
...oh, we use cloud computing!
...great!

Wtf?
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:59 PM   #7
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Re: Cloud?

Yes "cloud" computing is basically a web based network and sounds innocuous enough on the face of it. I use a cloud type system in that my Android can access and stream media like videos and music from my home PC. Where it becomes a dirty word to me is when it has the potential to replace having your own data storage, operating system, everything. Basically turning your computer into an interface or dumb terminal. Computer use would be reduced to a utility like service such as water and electric. Even games could be streamed instead of playing off your own rig. Unfortunately this will be very attractive to most end users who just want to surf the web and pay for net flics. No more hardware or software upgrades needed. No more virus problems (unless someone could hack into what would be HUGE servers) no more losing pics and media. This would allow everything to be censored and spoon fed however the network owners want. I hope I never live to see the day.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:18 PM   #8
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Re: Cloud?

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...I hope I never live to see the day.
You and me both.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:52 AM   #9
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Re: Cloud?

Thats the other thing that bothers me; computer use like a "utility" such as water or electricity. Thats nothing new to me, i already have it. Its called the internet.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:41 PM   #10
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Re: Cloud?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> View Post
Thats the other thing that bothers me; computer use like a "utility" such as water or electricity. Thats nothing new to me, i already have it. Its called the internet.
Yes but if your internet gets shut off you can still play your games, compose documents, watch your movies you have on your own HD's, play your own music etc. etc. If your "cloud" gets shut off you will probably get a screen that says "please contact your local total control provider. Remember, we are here to keep you safe by filtering all your content so you wont be troubled by any independent thought"
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:16 PM   #11
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Re: Cloud?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedDMN View Post
Yes but if your internet gets shut off you can...
Speed, I guess your issue is different to mine.
I want a clear precise definition of what "cloud computing" means and can't find it, while you have concerns about availability if a "cloud" service is down.

I don't see how we can even talk about your concerns until we have a definition.
I mean, what is it? Does the term belong to a particular corporation? Is it defined by any professional body? Is it being taught by any educational Institution?

Apart from every 2nd IT related blog rattling it off, is there actually any substance to it?

Or is it, as I suspect, simply a replacement term for "client server" or "distributed computing". Maybe it's just fallen out of all those architecture diagrams over the past 15 years that displayed a cloud in the middle with lots of spaghetti lines drawn.

I suppose "cloud computing" evokes something less techy and boring than "client server".
I dunno, forgive me for being asinine if I am, I just need to understand the subject under discussion before I can form a view on it, and find conflicting statements on the topic by other commentators to be annoying and just plain opportunistic.
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:54 PM   #12
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Re: Cloud?

You have the basic definitions as best as anyone. Yes I do know what you mean by the term being thrown around as some arbitrary blanket expression. It's great for people who don't really know what a client server or distributed network really is. "cloud" is any easier term to sell to the masses then anything that sounds remotely technologically complicated. It's certainly nothing new. Colleges have been using them for years for example with a central hub and dumb terminals within the school. The reasons I get up in arms when I hear the term are because it is deceptive. The very reason the word was coined at all is for sheeple to be led by the nose with. It's such a nice fluffy cozy word isn't it? I guess in a nut shell the definition would be any computing that takes place outside of your own machine streamed through your own machine or terminal. Which yes, largely consist of the net. You can drop "cloud" whenever you want and you will never be wrong
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:38 PM   #13
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Re: Cloud?

I know this topic is rather old, but since I "graduated" as an "EMC Proven Professional" (Cloud Infrastructure and Services, 92%) last November, here's my $0.02.

The main point is that Cloud goes heavy into virtualization (platform independence/migration), resource pooling (to avoid little/excessive resource reservation/partitioning) and service management (automated resource allocation/deallocation) in all three levels (compute, storage and network).

Economically, it's about turning CAPEX (capital expenditure) into OPEX (operational expenditure), except for Private Clouds. You don't buy, you rent (utility computing). Yet you may "own" a virtual infrastructure/platform/software reserved to you, and have a certain degree of control, depending on the Service Model. Both you and the service provider can see what's being "spent" and forecast expenditures.

For more info, see http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/ni.../SP800-145.pdf
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:24 AM   #14
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Re: Cloud?

Free? Dont they serve advertising at you?
As to storage in the cloud, if its secure then its convenient but I can serve my data over the web from my home network instead of storing it all in a foreign country. Nothing to hide except my privacy.
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:16 AM   #15
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Re: Cloud?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> View Post
Free? Dont they serve advertising at you?
As to storage in the cloud, if its secure then its convenient but I can serve my data over the web from my home network instead of storing it all in a foreign country. Nothing to hide except my privacy.
Not on Google Photos, the search function is amazing. type in boats and it will find any picture of boats in my 10000 pictures, same with dogs or anything else....best app I've seen in years, yes it is free for anything picture 16 megapixels or lower, if its over 16 it will downgrade it to 16, which for me is't a problem, you do get 500 gigs of full quality backup....do yourself a favor if you have lots of pictures check it out....by the way if you want to share pictures with others you select which pictures you want to share then Google will provide a link so they can look at or download them....neat
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