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Old 10-06-2017, 06:48 PM   #16
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fvbounty View Post
Isn't what I'm looking for Jim...I need more lanes....lol...more lanes I tell yeah....
Whats the PCI lanes issue fv? Isnt Coffee Lake the same as Kaby Lake?
i.e.: 16 lanes on the CPU and 24 on the Z230?

Not saying more lanes wouldn't be welcome, but theres no step backwards?
I think Ryzen has an addititional 4 lanes? Is that what's putting u off?

[edit] not to forget the usual chipset features that board makers will/will not implement
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:17 PM   #17
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

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Originally Posted by fvbounty View Post
You know what really gets me is only 16 pci-e lanes, lots of new 370 MB have 2 to 4 M.2 slots but what the hell for, 1 video card and all your lanes are gone (unless you run it at 8X, which I'm doing right now so I can run my 950 Pro). I'm going to wait and see what happens when more MB's come out, this upgrade I'm going to do is on a fixed budget, so I want it to last. I might go with the X299 Apex like Skully's and 7820X, you know me I run it stock, so heat isn't going to be problem, and at least I have 28 lanes to play with!
Yeah that is a good chip the 7820X. Works really well when stock, hits 4.5GHz and runs very well. You could wait for the ASUS Z370 WS. It will have 4-5 16X slots like the HEDT boards and will contain an extra PCI controller.

You actually have more options on Z370. Even though 16 lanes from CPU, I showed you that another 4 are available from the PCH. It will be the last slot on the mobo most likely. So, you will still be able to run a 16X VGA card and a 4X PCI SSD but not two of them unless you knock your VGA card down to 8X.

I have it made, I have a 40 lane CPU and I have 6 slots, 4 of which are PCI 3.0. Of those 4 slots I can do 16X*16X or 16X*8X*8X*8X.

To be totally honest FVB it all sucks right now IMO. First I don't much like any of the X299 boards including the APEX. The reason with the APEX is those 2 M.2 DIMM slots suck the PCI lanes away.

Capture.JPG

This is why I am not going with it and I mentioned this all in the APEX thread that I was unhappy with it. Unless you go to Skully's 7900X with 44 lanes you won't get full use of the PCI slots.

The Z270/370 series are in the same boat with only 16 PCI lanes but the PCH adds 4 and if you run one VGA card and one PCI SSD in the last slot you will be OK.

The other option is waiting on the WS board but it accomplishes extra PCI lanes through an additional hot PCI chip which is one reason the WS is costlier. If you are serious you need to study the Z270-WS manual. The Z370 (if one comes out) will be similar if not identical.

Another note, the Formula and Code are not going to be cheap, you could go over to the HEDT side with little more money.
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:23 PM   #18
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

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Originally Posted by Sandog View Post
Yeah that is a good chip the 7820X. Works really well when stock, hits 4.5GHz and runs very well. You could wait for the ASUS Z370 WS. It will have 4-5 16X slots like the HEDT boards and will contain an extra PCI controller.

You actually have more options on Z370. Even though 16 lanes from CPU, I showed you that another 4 are available from the PCH. It will be the last slot on the mobo most likely. So, you will still be able to run a 16X VGA card and a 4X PCI SSD but not two of them unless you knock your VGA card down to 8X.

I have it made, I have a 40 lane CPU and I have 6 slots, 4 of which are PCI 3.0. Of those 4 slots I can do 16X*16X or 16X*8X*8X*8X.

To be totally honest FVB it all sucks right now IMO. First I don't much like any of the X299 boards including the APEX. The reason with the APEX is those 2 M.2 DIMM slots suck the PCI lanes away.

Attachment 31573

This is why I am not going with it and I mentioned this all in the APEX thread that I was unhappy with it. Unless you go to Skully's 7900X with 44 lanes you won't get full use of the PCI slots.

The Z270/370 series are in the same boat with only 16 PCI lanes but the PCH adds 4 and if you run one VGA card and one PCI SSD in the last slot you will be OK.

The other option is waiting on the WS board but it accomplishes extra PCI lanes through an additional hot PCI chip which is one reason the WS is costlier. If you are serious you need to study the Z270-WS manual. The Z370 (if one comes out) will be similar if not identical.

Another note, the Formula and Code are not going to be cheap, you could go over to the HEDT side with little more money.
Correct me I'm wrong any lanes from the PCH are only 2.0? I just want 16X for my 980TI, 4x 3.0 for my 950 pro and 4x 3.0 for a 960 Pro....
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:26 PM   #19
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> View Post
Whats the PCI lanes issue fv? Isnt Coffee Lake the same as Kaby Lake?
i.e.: 16 lanes on the CPU and 24 on the Z230?

Not saying more lanes wouldn't be welcome, but theres no step backwards?
I think Ryzen has an addititional 4 lanes? Is that what's putting u off?

[edit] not to forget the usual chipset features that board makers will/will not implement
I think any lanes on the chipset are 2.0 not 3.0....I might be wrong or misunderstood what I was reading?
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:30 PM   #20
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

Mistake
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:30 PM   #21
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

This one would work for me.....with a 7820X
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture.JPG (113.7 KB, 6 views)
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Old 10-06-2017, 07:32 PM   #22
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

All PCI 16X slot # 1 are PCI 3.0 nowadays so that is not problem. But you need PCI 3.0 4X to get the speed out of the PCI SSD's properly. That is the problem. You can get it out of the last slot but it goes through the PCH and gets converted to DPI bus or something before it goes to the CPU. That is how the small M.2 slots buried around the mobo are doing it.
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Old 10-06-2017, 08:41 PM   #23
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

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Originally Posted by Sandog View Post
All PCI 16X slot # 1 are PCI 3.0 nowadays so that is not problem. But you need PCI 3.0 4X to get the speed out of the PCI SSD's properly. That is the problem. You can get it out of the last slot but it goes through the PCH and gets converted to DPI bus or something before it goes to the CPU. That is how the small M.2 slots buried around the mobo are doing it.
You may mean DMI bus. Yes, all PCI 3.0, CPU and chipset.
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Old 10-06-2017, 08:43 PM   #24
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

I wasnt sure if Z370 hooks to a PCH, I thought they moved to SOC?
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Old 10-06-2017, 09:10 PM   #25
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

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I wasnt sure if Z370 hooks to a PCH, I thought they moved to SOC?
I call it the I/O bridge or what use to be called the south bridge. Now it is labeled PCH by Intel (Platform Controller Hub). SOC is not specific model name but a generic term given to a custom built IC that contains multiple IC's with different functions. We built one at work by extracting several dies and placing them together on a single chip module.

Here is a really nice CPU cooler. I never used CM stuff but I really like this HSF.

YouTube
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Old 10-06-2017, 09:36 PM   #26
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

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Originally Posted by Sandog View Post
...

Here is a really nice CPU cooler. I never used CM stuff but I really like this HSF.

YouTube
Nice. The running temp of Coffee Lake is high, thanks to the additional cores.
I guess Intel wanted more time to tweak it but then Ryzen exploded on the market and they had to speed it up. Ryzen runs cooler and has that nice soldered TIM instead of the paste Intel is still using.
From what I've read in the 8700K reviews the temp doesnt run away under overclockimg so shouldnt be an issue (except in hot operating areas).
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:46 AM   #27
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

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Originally Posted by fvbounty View Post
Correct me I'm wrong any lanes from the PCH are only 2.0? I just want 16X for my 980TI, 4x 3.0 for my 950 pro and 4x 3.0 for a 960 Pro....
Yes, all the slots are capable of working. You can't take away from the 16X #1 slot and give it to other for PCI 3.0. The manual expansion diagram shows you what you can get for PCI 3.0. Follow the diagram I showed above for the APEX and do not look at the last two DIMM M.2 just look at the PCI slots. Even with HEDT APEX you get 16X or 16X + 8X.

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With Z370 you get 16X or 16X and 4X from PCH so it is the same as the APEX for your needs unless you want to use ASUS proprietary M.2 adapter by the CPU. Then you have 16X + 8X by the slots and another 4X by the CPU.

I think to put it in a nutshell, you would have to go to X99, X299 with i7-7900X and above, or Z370-WS to get 16X + 4X + 4X PCI 3.0 in all the slots.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:20 AM   #28
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

extract from EVGA - clears a few things up for me.

PCI-E Slot Breakdown

PCI-E Lane Distribution (All Socket 1151 processors are 16 lanes.)

 PE1 – x1 (Gen3, x1 lanes from PCH)
 PE2 – x16 (Gen3, x16 lanes from CPU, x8 shared with PE4)
 PE3 – x1 (Gen3, x1 lanes from PCH)
 PE4 – x16 (Gen3, x8 lanes from CPU, Shares 8 of PE2’s 16 lanes)
 PE5 – x1 (Gen3, x1 lanes from PCH)
 PE6 – x16 (Gen3, x1 lanes from PCH)

M.2 and U.2 Slot Breakdown

M.2 Lane Distribution
 M.2 Key M (110mm, Top) – x4 (Gen 3, 4 lanes from PCH)
o Using M.2 disables U.2
o M.2 Enable/Disable is set within the BIOS
 M.2 Key M (80mm, Bottom) – x4 (Gen 3, 4 lanes from PCH)
o Using the PCI-E M.2 DISABLES SATA port 2/3 and PE 3/5
o Using the SATA M.2 DISABLES SATA port 2/3
o M.2 Enable/Disable is set within the BIOS
 M.2 Key E (32mm) – x1 (Shares with PE3)
o M.2 Enable/Disable is set within the BIOS
 U.2 4x PCI-E Gen 3 lanes (Shares with M.2 Key M 110mm)
o U.2 Enable/Disable is set within the BIOS

 This motherboard does NOT have any lane replication via PLX; all lanes are native and derived from CPU or PCH. This also allows for improved backwards compatibility for Gen 2 devices.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:45 AM   #29
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

extract from EVGA

There are two numeric references for PCI-Express: one is mechanical, which is the actual slot-length footprint, and the second is electrical, which is a reference of how
many PCI-E lanes are routed to the slot.

As PCI Express is designed to be a universal architecture, you can install x1 cards, such as sound cards or USB controllers into a x16 slot. Many types of cards can use different amounts of PCI-E lanes, while some applications use only certain parts of a card, such as compute apps that allow a card to run off of a single PCI-E lane. This is why there are x16 mechanical slots with a x1 electrical PCI-E lane. Using the entire length of a PCI-E slot is unnecessary, nor does it cause an adverse effect to use a shorter formfactor bus card in a slot that physically can hold a larger form-factor bus card.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:50 AM   #30
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Re: Intel i7- 8700K Reviews!

extract from EVGA (The biggie)

PCI-E Slot x4
PCI-E x4 slot uses up to 4 lanes from the PCH. This slot is typically used for sound cards, WiFi, USB, or other peripheral cards.

Because this slot uses PCH bandwidth, this will have *NO EFFECT* on the bandwidth or throughput of the x16 slots used for SLI.

Conflict: The x4 slot shares PCH lanes with the U.2 connector, and while they can be plugged in simultaneously, their functionality is mutually exclusive. The selection for PCI-E x4 vs U.2 connector is set within the BIOS.
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