Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

[fvbounty]

I thought I would start a thread on these 2 Intel builds, here's what I came up with using PCpartsPicker.com. the only thing that is going to change is the Z370 Asus Apex motherboard to a Asus Z370 Code MB which isn't out. The difference in price of those 2 boards might be $50 more for the Code, I'm guessing here but you can get the idea of the 2 different builds! Looks like $250 dollars or a little more. The ram prices (like Skully said) are thru the roof, 5 months ago you could have got 4x8 gigs of ddr4 Corsair 3000 memory 32 gig kits for $229, now abut $400...not good. Here's the two systems I'm looking at and the best prices as of today!

[PeterT]

Here's my 8700 build.
$995, but I chose the Hero. It'll probably be about $100 more for the Code.

[fvbounty]

Originally Posted by PeterT

Here's my 8700 build.
$995, but I chose the Hero. It'll probably be about $100 more for the Code.

Nice, you better check on the cooler at Noctua site for clearance, might have to use the 2x16 slot down, I know it would be a problem for X299 Apex board...

No problem on the Hero....

[fvbounty]

The 8700K is supposed to be available at B&H until Nov 28th...lol

[Sandog]

I would put the code much cheaper than you guys are. There is no I/O plate, no backplate, ordinary VRM heat sink, and regular LED's. It should be around the $300 mark IMO.

I recommend the mainstream kit and I am not even including cost in hardware or cost in power bill. The mainstream kit will give you more performance for what you do at home. Just Google i7-8700K vs. i7-7820X and look at CPU-world.com and user.benchmark.com for comparison.

[fvbounty]

Originally Posted by Sandog

I would put the code much cheaper than you guys are. There is no I/O plate, no backplate, ordinary VRM heat sink, and regular LED's. It should be around the $300 mark IMO.

I recommend the mainstream kit and I am not even including cost in hardware or cost in power bill. The mainstream kit will give you more performance for what you do at home. Just Google i7-8700K vs. i7-7820X and look at CPU-world.com and user.benchmark.com for comparison.

I want the 28 pci-e cpu lanes, what I have right now for gaming is just fine...to bad the rumor of the 24 lane 8700K wasn't true!

[PeterT]

Originally Posted by fvbounty

Nice, you better check on the cooler at Noctua site for clearance, might have to use the 2x16 slot down, I know it would be a problem for X299 Apex board...

No problem on the Hero....

Yep, will confirm the U14S cooler fits before I order.
I am going to be patient and wait to see if Asus releases a 'real' Sabertooth board (TUF Mark 1 ?). If so, I will probably get that one instead of a ROG. We'll see.

[Sandog]

Take your time PeterT, no need to rush. Prices will fall a bit in time to.

[Sandog]

FYI, this is just my opinion but I have a keen sense. Next Q2/Q3 Intel will bring out a LGA1151 8-core CPU. That is a fact jack. I am betting two things. One, it will run on Z370 and not just Z390. My reasoning is Z390 should not be a socket change and even though Intel will be debuting 10nm CPU's, the Z390 will have to run the 8700K as well. I am pretty sure both chipsets will run the same CPU's.

Second, I am pretty sure the new 8-core will have more than 16 PCI lanes. I think it will have at least 24. I am mentioning this not to keep you from upgrading now. I'm mentioning if you upgrade to Z370 mainstream now you will also have a good possibility to upgrade to the 8-core down the road. Something to keep in mind.

Another note I have is we all want to upgrade to more performance. The mainstream always leads in performance in games, desktop stuff at home. It always has the newest chipset with the latest CPU's with the latest internal memory controllers and the highest core clocks. The HEDT 8 cores with quad channel excel in multi-thread and memory bandwidth but I don't know anybody who benefits from it at home. Even at work our software does not utilized multi-thread CPU's. And even if it did it would have to be a long continuous running process to take advantage of multi-thread like encoding or 3D graphics it you were a graphical artist. Which leads me to another point.

The 8700K has a nice iGPU that can really assist with encoding. Also, so you want that HEDT 8-core. Well the 8700K is not far behind at all with 6 cores. It might take the 6 core 35min what it takes the 8 core 30min. What's the difference worth at home? Just something to ponder. I will also repeat my wisdom again. The 8700K 6-core makes a better multi-thread CPU than the 7820X 8-core makes a single thread performance CPU and 90% of the time at home it is single thread.

Also FVB, I started an X299 APEX thread a month before Skully started his. Go read my APEX thread. The 28 lane CPU you want on the APEX is not doing what you are thinking it is doing. I keep trying to get you guys to understand that Expansion page in each and every mobo manual ASUS puts out.

ABXZone Computer Forums - View Single Post - Asus ROG RAMPAGE VI APEX

I would love you to get your first HEDT system as well as others but I hope you understand what you are buying fully.

[Sandog]

Here FVB, this was taken out of that EFF'd up manual so it could be wrong as well but I doubt this is wrong.

ABXZone Computer Forums

Look at the middle diagram for the 28 lane CPU? Well even with a 28 lane CPU like the 7820X you cannot run a VGA and two SSD's like PeterT is wanting. The M.2 DIMM socket sux 4 lanes whether you are using it or not.

ABXZone Computer Forums - View Single Post - Asus ROG RAMPAGE VI APEX

"The one negative that stands out in the APEX is PCIe 3.0 support in the PCI slots with i7-7820X (28-lanes CPU). You only get 2 sots that can do 3.0 at the same time. But, that is all I need for what I am running now. The reason for this is the support for the two DIMM M.2 slots next to the RAM. They take away PCI lanes from the normal slots. Matter of fact, you can only do 2-way GPU cards with a 28-lane CPU. Physically the PCI slots are not great. You only get 2x16X, 2x8X, and 1x4X slots but it would work for my means."

[Sandog]

On a good note, the APEX has good slots after all. There is 4 16X slots which is optimum but you still do not get much PCI 3.0 goodness out of them. I am not sure either if the X299 can shift 4X over to the last PCI slot from the PCH like the Z370 is doing. ASUS needs to update that APEX manual. They have killed support for my graphics card for over a month.

[fvbounty]

Originally Posted by Sandog

FYI, this is just my opinion but I have a keen sense. Next Q2/Q3 Intel will bring out a LGA1151 8-core CPU. That is a fact jack. I am betting two things. One, it will run on Z370 and not just Z390. My reasoning is Z390 should not be a socket change and even though Intel will be debuting 10nm CPU's, the Z390 will have to run the 8700K as well. I am pretty sure both chipsets will run the same CPU's.

Second, I am pretty sure the new 8-core will have more than 16 PCI lanes. I think it will have at least 24. I am mentioning this not to keep you from upgrading now. I'm mentioning if you upgrade to Z370 mainstream now you will also have a good possibility to upgrade to the 8-core down the road. Something to keep in mind.

Another note I have is we all want to upgrade to more performance. The mainstream always leads in performance in games, desktop stuff at home. It always has the newest chipset with the latest CPU's with the latest internal memory controllers and the highest core clocks. The HEDT 8 cores with quad channel excel in multi-thread and memory bandwidth but I don't know anybody who benefits from it at home. Even at work our software does not utilized multi-thread CPU's. And even if it did it would have to be a long continuous running process to take advantage of multi-thread like encoding or 3D graphics it you were a graphical artist. Which leads me to another point.

The 8700K has a nice iGPU that can really assist with encoding. Also, so you want that HEDT 8-core. Well the 8700K is not far behind at all with 6 cores. It might take the 6 core 35min what it takes the 8 core 30min. What's the difference worth at home? Just something to ponder. I will also repeat my wisdom again. The 8700K 6-core makes a better multi-thread CPU than the 7820X 8-core makes a single thread performance CPU and 90% of the time at home it is single thread.

Also FVB, I started an X299 APEX thread a month before Skully started his. Go read my APEX thread. The 28 lane CPU you want on the APEX is not doing what you are thinking it is doing. I keep trying to get you guys to understand that Expansion page in each and every mobo manual ASUS puts out.

ABXZone Computer Forums - View Single Post - Asus ROG RAMPAGE VI APEX

I would love you to get your first HEDT system as well as others but I hope you understand what you are buying fully.

Everything you said makes perfect sense, and I see what your saying about the 28 lanes for the 7820X...If I put a 960 Pro in the number 1 slot on that raiser board it runs off the cpu lanes right? That would be my OS drive (don't care about raid) then my 980TI in the top 16x slot (it will run at 16X), then my 950 Pro in the Anglebird in the next 16X slot down (it will run at 4X in that slot)...now is that wrong? What I'm I missing here?

[fvbounty]

OK if this is true (thanks Sandog for this chart) this makes no sense what the hell if you have 28 lanes and lots of slots why not let you use them....using PCH on the chipset has latency in it dosen't it, your nvme ssd won't be has fast right?

[fvbounty]

Originally Posted by Sandog

I would put the code much cheaper than you guys are. There is no I/O plate, no backplate, ordinary VRM heat sink, and regular LED's. It should be around the $300 mark IMO.

I recommend the mainstream kit and I am not even including cost in hardware or cost in power bill. The mainstream kit will give you more performance for what you do at home. Just Google i7-8700K vs. i7-7820X and look at CPU-world.com and user.benchmark.com for comparison.

The Z270 code came out at $359 but has dropped a lot since!

[PeterT]

Thanks for all the info Sandog.

What I want is: 1 video card and at least 1 (prefer 2) PCIe SSD(s), all running at max speed/bandwidth, i.e. not throttled.
It seems I can't do that on a CPU/MB combo that has 16 lanes.

I am still not clear on the whole CPU lanes and PCie bus speed thing. I have to do some research and learn.