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Old 11-11-2017, 09:24 AM   #61
Sandog
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

The PCIe lanes going directly to the CPU will be faster. The 8700K has 16. These lanes go directly to the PCI slots.

You can have 4 more lanes going to the PCI slots but they will be stand alone and cannot be added to the VGA PCI 3.0 lanes. In other words you cannot mix CPU PCI lanes with PCH PCI lanes to get 16X on a video card. The 4 extra PCI lanes go back to the PCH and get converted to a different bus and then go to the CPU.

This is how 8700K/chipset will work. You get 16X video card or 2x8X and that is it. You can get another 4X in the last PCI slot and another 4/8X elsewhere on the mobo but it goes through the PCH.

With 7820X/chipset you get 24 PCI 3.0 lanes directly to the CPU so you can have a 16X video card and an 8X video card or 1 or 2 4X SSDs. You also get added lanes to the PCH across the mobo and the last PCI slot.
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Old 11-11-2017, 09:29 AM   #62
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zapionics<alt> View Post
I expect the price will come down quite a bit with all this fanfare around for the 8700K.

I think the heat issue with 8700K is also another serious consideration.
Obviously an OC 8700K will be faster than an OC 7800X because it can hit higher clocks (especially in single threaded gaming) but it needs water cooling from what I've seen so far, otherwise the CPU easily throttles. That means the headroom for OC on Coffee lake is less than for Skylake. The 7800X OC is well managed on air, I believe.

Thats why I'm interested in seeing high end gaming benchmarks between a stable air cooled OC 8700K and a stable OC 7800X. It may be that an easy OC on Skylake is very close in performance to an easy OC on Coffee lake due to the reduced OC headroom on Coffee lake.
I'm not averse to an easy OC providing that it doesnt stress my gear too much reducing reliability or longevity significantly. If its easy and well managed by the system then why not? I'm not talking about high volts and water cooling levels here or liquid nitrogen, lol, just a simple, easy, highly reliable air OC.

Btw, when I wrote that the 8700K CPU has 16 lanes, I meant available. I believe there must be 4 reserved for the DMI/PCH so actually there must be 20 in all. Someone correct me if thats wrong?
Yeah I would be interested in those benchmarks as well but in most cases they never pit mainstream against HEDT. You will mostly see 8700K comparison to previous Intel and new Ryzen CPU's.
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Old 11-11-2017, 09:29 AM   #63
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandog View Post
The PCIe lanes going directly to the CPU will be faster. The 8700K has 16. These lanes go directly to the PCI slots.

You can have 4 more lanes going to the PCI slots but they will be stand alone and cannot be added to the VGA PCI 3.0 lanes. In other words you cannot mix CPU PCI lanes with PCH PCI lanes to get 16X on a video card. The 4 extra PCI lanes go back to the PCH and get converted to a different bus and then go to the CPU.

This is how 8700K/chipset will work. You get 16X video card or 2x8X and that is it. You can get another 4X in the last PCI slot and another 4/8X elsewhere on the mobo but it goes through the PCH.

With 7820X/chipset you get 24 PCI 3.0 lanes directly to the CPU so you can have a 16X video card and an 8X video card or 1 or 2 4X SSDs. You also get added lanes to the PCH across the mobo and the last PCI slot.
Yeah, thank you for that but I knew that, I've been studying this for a month, I just thought the video would explain a bunch of storage questions, that we had, just trying to find interesting stuff for the guys here....always like your explanations, very detailed, keep them coming!
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:09 AM   #64
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

I have 40 PCI lanes and can do 2x16 or 16-8-8-8 which uses all of them. The lanes going to the CPU are all PCI 3.0.

Skully's is the best. He can do 44 lanes. I would look up what the APEX lanes can handle but the manual is still effed up.
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:18 AM   #65
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

Thanks FV. Very, very informative. I liked the part about the CPU vs PCH lanes.

Must be a Navy Vet thing. (especially within that rating) Among "Talking Heads", he has something to say as opposed to just talking. Very enjoyable.

I liked the Noctua video as well.


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I didn't know where to post this video but it answers a lot of questions by the guy who really knows his stuff about storage stuff, at the 19:49 mark is something we talked alot about here....worth a watch...the whole thing is worth watching and Allen is a old Navy man so he fits right in around here....lol

YouTube

Here's Allyn Malventano back ground....I like this one....
Electronics Technician Nuclear

https://www.linkedin.com/in/malventano
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:19 AM   #66
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandog View Post
I have 40 PCI lanes and can do 2x16 or 16-8-8-8 which uses all of them. The lanes going to the CPU are all PCI 3.0.

Skully's is the best. He can do 44 lanes. I would look up what the APEX lanes can handle but the manual is still effed up.
I found this on the Japanese manual I think....whatever it is it had the latest date on it!
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:22 AM   #67
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

Your welcome Jim, I have plenty of time looking for videos...lol
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:35 AM   #68
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

Don't get too wrapped around the axle with the CPU vs the PCH lanes. Like the man said - you'll never notice the difference. Except maybe on paper.
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:52 AM   #69
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

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Originally Posted by JimTram View Post
Don't get too wrapped around the axle with the CPU vs the PCH lanes. Like the man said - you'll never notice the difference. Except maybe on paper.
I agree, I have the 960 PRO 1TB running through the PCH and
its lightning on a gum stick...
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:04 AM   #70
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

If it weren't for the Obtanium Drive I would be running a 960 Pro 1TB off my PCH. I still have a very nice nickel M.2 heat sink from EK I am not using. I would get a 960 for it but I don't want to give up my 850 Pro.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:53 AM   #71
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

lightning on a gum stick...
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:56 AM   #72
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

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Originally Posted by JimTram View Post
lightning on a gum stick...
That was a good one....
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Old 11-11-2017, 12:55 PM   #73
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

I am very curious to see gaming benchies Optane vs Sammy 960. I bet in real world - there is none. IMHO
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:38 AM   #74
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

No the Optane has less read/write speeds than the Sammy drive but way the new Optane memory is addressed by the controller has changed and I think it eliminates some of the usual SSD controller processes. Anyway, it acts differently in testing such as it does not slow down based on the amount of data space used. Even though the RD/WR are slower on paper reviewers say it is a fast drive. I don't know much about it lol.

Really I am trading it out because I like that it is black. It is the only drive I would consider trading out for my Intel 750 and it should be a pretty near equal trade after I sell my 750. I am getting it Tuesday I believe.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:44 AM   #75
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Re: Z370 compaired to X299 Builds!

Looking fwd to that Squid. Load up a game and do some benchies now so you can compare with the Optane next week.
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