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Old 12-30-2012, 01:35 PM   #61
johnrr6
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you as well ChAsM!

There are "guts" to win 8 that are really nice....and you mentioned one.

And you have adapted to the new interface.....you be one smart cookie!

The challenge for MS is: .......just how many people/businesses/organizations will be willing to spend the time to learn the new interface.....put the time into it necessary.....and thus lose productivity while doing so.

I'd like to think I'm pretty good with Operating Systems.....heck, I've adapted VERY quicly to all new Windows operating systems...all took less than 3 days of heavy use....
Win 95
Win 98
Win 2000 (at work)
Win Millenium
Win XP
Win Vista
Win 7

And maybe it's just me......

But I have tried Win 8 TWICE....and the second time I told myself I WILL give this enough time and I WILL learn to like it and use it because hey....it IS Microsoft and it IS the future.....

And after a 10 day period the second time.....where I was FINALLY feeling like I could actually get some work done and do normal things I used to do....(albeit I was still WAY more effective using Win 7.....)

It hit me like a brick.

WHY should I need to struggle like this? For what reason?? Am I going to be "better off" in my daily life with this??

And the answer was just a flat NO!

And that is the conclusion I think that the MS gravy train folks......the "cash cows" for Microsoft: (Business, Industry, Education, Government)....will all make.

Too hard...too radical....we will lose time and productivity.

And as for the consumer market......if a person wants a "Tablet Interface".....they go buy an Apple or an Android tablet....or a Kindle.

I was struck by the fact that I learned to use an iPhone....in all of about an hour.
And because I could use an iPhone....the iPad had zero learning curve.

And I understand MS's goal of trying to standardize on all types of devices....and move towards where the world is heading......MOBILE!

But........even Apple....the king of mobile right now, DOES NOT force it's PC users to start totally from scratch....with a radically new interface that requires a large learning curve.

They instead keep refining their existing OS....the ones folks are comfortable with.....and at the same time give it added value with the option of using the Launchpad and thus bringing the traditional Mac user closer to the iOS operating experience.

There is no risk of losing business/produtivity/customers with this strategy....

And this is where MS has gone astray.....

They don't offer an option for existing customers....no "classic" mode. A user is FORCED to take a risk....on something radically different.

The sales figures for Win 8 that are starting to emerge are dismal....
PC sales over the holiday period were/are at an all time low......
The Surface Tablet has not swept the world with enthusiasim....to say the least...(BTW....the WORST TV commercials in history for a new device.....I'm supposed to want to buy this because a keyboard snaps on???)
Windows Phone sales figures are a total joke.....
I was at a meeting where my school system....the 37th largest in America was discussing our future....Win 8 came up and the room got silent...our CIO...a dyed in the wool MS FanBoy if there ever was one.....simply said "you must be joking"....and we moved on to other matters like how we were going to shift our organization from PC based to more mobile....

Now....just imagine how different this scenario would be if MS took Apple's approach...
And took all those wonderful new "guts" to Win 8....and offered the shiny new Metro Interface as WELL as a classic option.....

Now no risk....and sales figures and PC use would be fine....

As it is....Win 8 will be HISTORIC......it will hasten the death of desktop based PC/Mouse. Because....not enough folks will buy into the new learning curve...when other alternaties exist that are so much easier.

And that...in a nutshell is why I HATE Window 8! LOL

Kinda weird isn't it...as I was typing this I got a phone call from a friend who is a second grade teacher......basically begging me to come over to her house and load Windows 7 on a brand new laptop the family got for Christmas.....that no-one in her family can figure out or get any use out of it.....BIG expense to her on a teacher's budget....huge dissapointment. She said the laptop is useless to her family right now.

I can barely get teachers and administrators to function and be productive within Win 7....and that same Windows Interface has basically been around for 17 years albeit in different shades...but still basically the same....start menu etc...

I shudder to think what my personnel would do if we were all forced to move to Win 8....

And basically EVERY CIO in the world is thinking those same shuddering thoughts as I do.....

Sorry for the "Tome" and if you have something that works well for you....stick with it till you find something better!!

That's what I am going to do....

John
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:14 PM   #62
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Very well said has usual John, I agree with all the points you made!
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:59 PM   #63
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John !!!!!!!

You finally got it !!!!!!!

The current day M$ does not care about the customer ... only the Dollar.




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Old 12-31-2012, 12:31 AM   #64
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Quote:
Originally Posted by traveler View Post
John !!!!!!!

You finally got it !!!!!!!

The current day M$ does not care about the customer ... only the Dollar.

And in so doing....their arrogance will end a 17 year reign of total dominance in the PC Tech arena....

and actually hasten the PC's demise.....

Historical.....epic bad decision....

The kind that changes the course of a company.

They can still recover from this...by adding back a "Classic Mode" as an option....Maybe Windows 8 Plus or Service Pack 1....

But they had better do it soon.....otherwise the closing window on PC opportunity will have closed for good....and most folks will have tablets.....

And they WON'T be Microsoft tablets.....
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:39 PM   #65
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Re: I hate Win 8!

johnrr6, you make some good, valid points. And, I do agree, that as a "business" OS, Windows 8 is less than stellar. However, as a consumer, non-techie OS, I think Windows 8 is on the right track.

First of all, I want to start out by saying I'm 42 years old... That said, as an IS person, I can see how the cartoonish nature of Windows 8 is somewhat annoying. Its interface certainly isn't conducive to real "work". Its interface layout is actually counter-productive to a system tester or programmer. I honestly feel that it's just meant to make computing --- simpler; at least for those not wanting computing to require "know-how". (...insert compete with Apple...)

In all honesty, there really should be a "back door" method for simplifying the interface. However, Windows 7 is still a very good and viable OS, especially for business or IT/IS people. Windows 8 doesn't change that fact and I'm not certain its meant to. I just think for touch devices, as well as entertainment systems (my wife loves it for this purpose, by the way), Windows 8 is actually quite nice. The "apps" concept (expanded upon from Windows 7) is also quite nice, as far as its simplicity.

In other words, unlike Windows Vista (total crap, IMHO), Windows 8 does have its purposes. Although, for work (development, etc.) I'll be the first to say I'm not leaving Windows 7 for Windows 8.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:50 PM   #66
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Quote:
Originally Posted by traveler View Post
John !!!!!!!

You finally got it !!!!!!!

The current day M$ does not care about the customer ... only the Dollar.

How's it going, traveler!

In all honesty, all business are about the almighty dollar. The IT sector always has, and will be, a fierce market. Microsoft was once a company that thought the Internet (a la Bill Gates) was a dead end that had no future. Apple is innovating and Microsoft is attempting to stay within striking distance. I think it's necessary for their survival. Unfortunately, it's not the IT people that dictate the market. It's the Paris Hilton wannabe's that decide what is hip. And, yes, this type of person exists not only as a consumer, but in the corporate world, as well. You must strive hard to appeal to this type of person to gain market acceptance...

I'm sorry, folks, I'm rambling. I miss the fine folks here at abxzone. I do wish everyone here a safe, happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year!
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:26 PM   #67
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChAsM View Post
How's it going, traveler!

In all honesty, all business are about the almighty dollar. The IT sector always has, and will be, a fierce market. Microsoft was once a company that thought the Internet (a la Bill Gates) was a dead end that had no future. Apple is innovating and Microsoft is attempting to stay within striking distance. I think it's necessary for their survival. Unfortunately, it's not the IT people that dictate the market. It's the Paris Hilton wannabe's that decide what is hip. And, yes, this type of person exists not only as a consumer, but in the corporate world, as well. You must strive hard to appeal to this type of person to gain market acceptance...

I'm sorry, folks, I'm rambling. I miss the fine folks here at abxzone. I do wish everyone here a safe, happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year!
There always a few of old folks still around to shoot the bull with...and have a Happy New Year to you and yours!
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #68
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Some really good points in this thread. I recently saw a video, which made very good arguments as to why the the dichotomous new UI leaves the user with absolutely no semblance of context, which makes it inevitably hard to get things done in a productive manner on Windows 8.

Let's take the Metro screen for example. By default, the user has no idea of whether the machine is connected to the internet (no information about the network/connectivity status), simple things such as the date and time, which one would expect to be omnipresent are missing. There is no easy access to basic information and settings. These need to be accessed via awkward mechanisms such as the charms bar.

Moving onto the charms bar, has anyone thought why the charms bar exists, or why it needs to be accessed in the way it currently is, or why it even has the buttons it currently does? Why force a share button on users when they are on the desktop? What the hell are they going to share? At least make is context aware, or let users customize it to their liking.

I understand MS's big push on gesture-based interactions throughout the OS. OS X has had this since 10.4 (Tiger). But the fundamental difference is that Apple doesn't force you to use gestures and hot corners. Users have complete autonomy to customize gestures and hot corners per their preferences. There's no way to change the default gestures and hot corners in Windows 8.

Once we are inside an app, simple navigation is an extremely difficult task to accomplish. Most metro apps are full screen, with large fonts and tiles which are a spectacular waste of space. Moreover, the user is again left without any clue as to how to close an app or return to the desktop. Even if you somehow manage to get back tot he desktop, you are again left without context, as you don't know if the app is closed or still running, or paused.

Sure, moving the cursor to the top left corner displays all the running apps, but there's no way to close apps from that list. This cannot be accomplished from the metro desktop either. Right clicking on an app gets you an option to uninstall it and some other options on a gaudy bar that appears at the bottom of the screen. Of course when you do uninstall it, the tile disappears, but gives the user no notification of its completion. Again, severe lack of context.

While staring at the metro desktop, the user has no way to get an overview of which app is running and which is not. They're all tiles and they all look the same.

Also while looking at the Metro desktop, what am I to assume? Are these all the applications I have installed? Do classic windows apps also show up here? If classic windows app show up in the metro interface, then can you have a shortcut to a metro app in the classic windows taskbar? Questions like these severely affect the W8 learning curve negatively.

The classic desktop is an entirely different nightmare. Its like presenting someone with a car; everything is there, but we've decided to do away with the steering wheel.You can still drive the car, but you have to control the car via a d-pad on the right side of the driver's seat. WHY?? So utterly unnecessary. It only makes it harder for users to accomplish stuff and get work done.

Right clicking the task bar gives you a lot of the same options one used to get to via the start menu. Needless to say, this doesn't serve any practical purpose, and neither does it induce any efficiency in work flow. All it does is completely fluster the user with a similar interface, but with one key element (i.e. the start button) missing.

I don't know about you guys, but I like change that is completely overwhelming, rather than a change which leads be to believe not much has changed, when in fact a lot has changed. MS should have either a) completely done away with the classic desktop; or b) completely redesigned the classic desktop, leaving no UI elements which could lull the user into believing that this is a familiar interface -- those options are still easier to grasp than the mind*uck that is the classic desktop without the start button.

All that Windows 8 is going to be successful in doing is to alienate a dedicated user base that has been accustomed to doing things in a certain way by completely bowling them over with an interface that is new and does not have any material benefits over what its replacing.

I can't even begin to imagine the chain of decisions that ultimately culminated in such a flawed product (one which billions of people rely on a day to day basis) to be released to the public. Absolutely unbelievable. Thanks for listening to my rant.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:35 AM   #69
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Watch this video as well:
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:39 AM   #70
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Exactly, I will never go to eight, I don't want my computer to look like everyone else's, that why I decided to build my own to get exactly what I want not what MS wants. Just try doing something on 8 and count the clicks then do it on 7 and see the difference, and if you can't remember hot keys with 8 good luck using it!
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:52 PM   #71
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy2066 View Post
Some really good points in this thread. I recently saw a video, which made very good arguments as to why the the dichotomous new UI leaves the user with absolutely no semblance of context, which makes it inevitably hard to get things done in a productive manner on Windows 8.

Let's take the Metro screen for example. By default, the user has no idea of whether the machine is connected to the internet (no information about the network/connectivity status), simple things such as the date and time, which one would expect to be omnipresent are missing. There is no easy access to basic information and settings. These need to be accessed via awkward mechanisms such as the charms bar.

Moving onto the charms bar, has anyone thought why the charms bar exists, or why it needs to be accessed in the way it currently is, or why it even has the buttons it currently does? Why force a share button on users when they are on the desktop? What the hell are they going to share? At least make is context aware, or let users customize it to their liking.

I understand MS's big push on gesture-based interactions throughout the OS. OS X has had this since 10.4 (Tiger). But the fundamental difference is that Apple doesn't force you to use gestures and hot corners. Users have complete autonomy to customize gestures and hot corners per their preferences. There's no way to change the default gestures and hot corners in Windows 8.

Once we are inside an app, simple navigation is an extremely difficult task to accomplish. Most metro apps are full screen, with large fonts and tiles which are a spectacular waste of space. Moreover, the user is again left without any clue as to how to close an app or return to the desktop. Even if you somehow manage to get back tot he desktop, you are again left without context, as you don't know if the app is closed or still running, or paused.

Sure, moving the cursor to the top left corner displays all the running apps, but there's no way to close apps from that list. This cannot be accomplished from the metro desktop either. Right clicking on an app gets you an option to uninstall it and some other options on a gaudy bar that appears at the bottom of the screen. Of course when you do uninstall it, the tile disappears, but gives the user no notification of its completion. Again, severe lack of context.

While staring at the metro desktop, the user has no way to get an overview of which app is running and which is not. They're all tiles and they all look the same.

Also while looking at the Metro desktop, what am I to assume? Are these all the applications I have installed? Do classic windows apps also show up here? If classic windows app show up in the metro interface, then can you have a shortcut to a metro app in the classic windows taskbar? Questions like these severely affect the W8 learning curve negatively.

The classic desktop is an entirely different nightmare. Its like presenting someone with a car; everything is there, but we've decided to do away with the steering wheel.You can still drive the car, but you have to control the car via a d-pad on the right side of the driver's seat. WHY?? So utterly unnecessary. It only makes it harder for users to accomplish stuff and get work done.

Right clicking the task bar gives you a lot of the same options one used to get to via the start menu. Needless to say, this doesn't serve any practical purpose, and neither does it induce any efficiency in work flow. All it does is completely fluster the user with a similar interface, but with one key element (i.e. the start button) missing.

I don't know about you guys, but I like change that is completely overwhelming, rather than a change which leads be to believe not much has changed, when in fact a lot has changed. MS should have either a) completely done away with the classic desktop; or b) completely redesigned the classic desktop, leaving no UI elements which could lull the user into believing that this is a familiar interface -- those options are still easier to grasp than the mind*uck that is the classic desktop without the start button.

All that Windows 8 is going to be successful in doing is to alienate a dedicated user base that has been accustomed to doing things in a certain way by completely bowling them over with an interface that is new and does not have any material benefits over what its replacing.

I can't even begin to imagine the chain of decisions that ultimately culminated in such a flawed product (one which billions of people rely on a day to day basis) to be released to the public. Absolutely unbelievable. Thanks for listening to my rant.
Well said, Sammy.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:02 AM   #72
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Ok,

Gonna try out Windows 8.

Why? Well I was running Vista Home Premium and Vista Ultimate on my two machines. (Son has Win 7).

Since I had SSD's, I wanted the Native trim support from the Operating system. I didn't want to pay 150$ for an upgrade to 7 or 200$ for a full version of Win 7.

So for $49.99 I got the upgrade to Win 8 Pro at Best Buy.
(Found out later could have gotten it for $39.99 from MicroSoft direct.

I hated Win 8 the first day.
Went to Library got a very basic book on Win 8.
Hate it not so much now. But need to fiddle more.

Will update you all later.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:45 AM   #73
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWillakers View Post
Ok,

Gonna try out Windows 8.

Why? Well I was running Vista Home Premium and Vista Ultimate on my two machines. (Son has Win 7).

Since I had SSD's, I wanted the Native trim support from the Operating system. I didn't want to pay 150$ for an upgrade to 7 or 200$ for a full version of Win 7.

So for $49.99 I got the upgrade to Win 8 Pro at Best Buy.
(Found out later could have gotten it for $39.99 from MicroSoft direct.

I hated Win 8 the first day.
Went to Library got a very basic book on Win 8.
Hate it not so much now. But need to fiddle more.

Will update you all later.
It is not so bad after you use it for a couple of weeks. It seems faster then Win7. There are lots of Windows key shortcuts that are nice. Also if you want there is the Start Menu download programs that give you the Win7 Menu and desktop.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:57 PM   #74
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Re: I hate Win 8!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff View Post
It is not so bad after you use it for a couple of weeks. It seems faster then Win7. There are lots of Windows key shortcuts that are nice. Also if you want there is the Start Menu download programs that give you the Win7 Menu and desktop.
I would like to know what you can do with W8 that you can't do on W7...without taking 2 weeks to figure out how to use it doing the same thing that your doing on W7...just doesn't make since to me?????????????
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:12 PM   #75
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Re: I hate Win 8!

I feel the same way. Have not really read one good thing about it. It's a dud!
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Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD16GX3M2A1866C9
STRIX-GTX970-DC2OC-4GD5, Dell™ U2413
Samsung 850 Pro 1TB, WD Gold 1TB, ASUS DRW-24B1ST
Corsair 550D Case including 3x120 Corsair SP120 Fans,
Seasonic Prime Platinum 650 PSU
CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD
Ducky One White LED KB Cherry Blue, Logitech MX518
Sennheiser HD280 Pro
Win10 Pro 1703
iPhone 7+ 32GB, iPad 32GB WiFi, iPad 16GB WiFi
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